Why don't a lot of men out there have the confidence?



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Why don't a lot (even most) men out there lack the confidence it takes to do good with women?

Why do you believe this is and can it be turned around in your experience?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Why don't a lot (even most) men out there lack the confidence it takes to do good with women?

Why do you believe this is and can it be turned around in your experience?

Self-Confidence and high self-esteem (limiting beliefs thrown in there somewhere too) aren't gained easily if you don't have them... Those who have confidence have worked on it, whether through a book, counselor, life coach, etc. they have all put the work into themselves, confidence doesn't come easily.

Self-esteem is created in our early early years and hurt or helped until the present.

Your self-confidence is a lot of work and a lot of ongoing effort... You must maintain confident behaviors to be confident.

If you want self-confidence and high self-esteem you must work on it, those who have it worked to get it whether it consciously happened or unconsciously happened.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Men have no real purpose in life.

I might go in to greater detail one day.

The sooner men realise this the better.

Think about what i have said quietly and you may learn something.

You have to have something to aim for in life.

look around at the society we now live in.

Empty shops, ghost towns full of overweight people in tracksuits slowly eating and drinking themselfs to an early death.

Why?

No purpose. Existing, not living.
Sure, walking around breathing but not living. Just existing.
And those that are working are doing 2 peoples jobs for shit money and no thanks getting by on stress,anger and redbull.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Society has its priorities messed up. It teaches soft skills instead of teaching people the fundamentals of healthy living. Everything is quick fixes. Everyone wants quick fixes and they don't want to do the dirty work. I even went as far as going to joining a fraternity because they had the ideals of sound mind and sound body. However, half of these people actually practiced what they preached and I left it soon after. These men were lazy in my eyes.

To turn things around people need to check their personal mission statement. How would you like to be remembered as family, friends, and spouses on your death bead? This is the second step. The first step is acknowledge that you have control over your life and the way your life is now is because of the choices you have made. You suck with women because you suck. Accept it. Most men do not accept this and think women are some alien species or they are bitches, sluts, insert any weird paradigm here.

And it all starts out with a purpose as one of the posters have said. Once you have a purpose, you will become attractive.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:36 pm 
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Guys are not developed by their parents to interact with women confidently. Parents rarely work with you to do well with girls because they weren't good with girls often. A lot of times guys that are confident just naturally found out how to interact with women or they were successful with women because they were popular or attrative to woman.

Also, its easy to stay in your comfort zone. Growing confidence takes getting out of your comfort zone and seeing things are not as intimidating as you think they maybe, but getting out of your comfort zone takes a strong desire to confront discomfort and thats hard for many people. You don't ask girls to the prom, you don't ask girls out, you don't tell your crush you like her because you are scared of rejection. You're too worried about failing that you in fact fail by not acting.

If you asked a middle school or high school male how can I date the girl I like they wouldn't know.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:24 am 
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Not sure I entirely agree with johnchangmai and Mr. Assertive. I know a lot of lawyers through parents' contacts, law school friends/acquaintances etc. etc. Some of these lawyers I know are ridiculously goal orientated. I would go so far as to say they were ruthless in achieving their career goals. But put them in front of a pretty lady and they crumble to pieces.

Confidence usually comes from one of two things, I find. Firstly, experience. Secondly, delusion (I will talk more about delusion below, I don't mean it in the usual sense of the word).

Experience - you do something a million times, you get good at it. You know you're good at something, you're confident in it. Even the most shy person will be confident in something - a sport, or the kitchen if they're a good cook, or with some of their model airplanes or whatever. Put them in their arena and they are confident in their own abilities, even if in their social interactions they are ridiculously shy and lacking in confidence. On a social front, if you go out, talk to new people regularly, and have had positive interactions with lots of new people from a relatively young age, then you just know you're good at it (consciously or subconsciously) because you've done it so many times before. You know you're good at it, you're confident in your ability to socialise with new people, you just do it easily.

Delusion - this can be one of a few things. It can be ignorance or a false experience. If you THINK you're good at something (even if you're terrible) then you can be confident. If you don't know the "dangers" of something, then you can come across as confident - you're a confident swimmer when you THINK the ocean is safe, but if you had realised that actually there were loads of hungry sharks or jellyfish nearby, you might not have been so confident. Socially - some people just naturally have a high "embarrassment threshold" - they don't really 'know' the social norms and "rules" that most people do, so they talk to everyone because they aren't restricted by these social norms that most of us have grown up with. Whether that's because their parents and family were very outside of the usual social "rules" so they picked it up naturally, or just because they are that sort of person, I expect there are examples of both.

So why aren't a lot of people confident - I think you can sort of turn those two things around. Firstly, lack of experience. You maybe only talk to a close group of friends and a few members of your family. You might smile and say hi to a few randomers, and maybe even have a couple of superficial "friendships" with a load of people, but in reality you have very few meaningful interactions with other humans. This means you just simply don't have the experience, you don't trust yourself in those situations, you don't know how to act in those situations.

Secondly, being too self aware. You know the "rules" of society. You don't want to be embarrassed because you've broken those rules. So instead you play it safe. You keep quiet. You don't talk to the stranger sitting opposite to you on the bus. You at most smile to the person who walks past you on the street, but don't stop and have a conversation. All because you don't want them to think you're "weird". Often, though, we see the "rules" of society as far more strict than they actually are.

How do you become more confident? Well, it's a bit of work on both of those aspects. The self awareness/delusion issue - well ultimately, the "rules" of society are generally wrong. You can get away with a lot more than those "rules" suggest. Obviously there is a line somewhere, but you can pretty much draw it where you want if you can carry it off in the right manner. But to use some of the examples I discussed above - if you talk to the stranger opposite you on the bus, 99 times out of 100 they will have a civil chat with you. 9 times out of 10 they will have a very friendly chat with you. But you never speak to strangers, because that 1 out of 100 people might think you're weird. Yet, if 99 out of 100 people would chat back to you (even if it was just a civil and short conversation) then that means that only 1 out of 100 people think you would be so weird that they would just ignore you. So if 1 person thinks something is weird, and 99 people think it isn't weird, what is actually weird? Arguably, sitting opposite another human being for 20 minutes on a bus, completely ignoring them and trying to avoid eye contact with your headphones in is far more weird than having a chat. Yet generally in society it seems the other way around! (Little note here: I think that is far more true in the UK; in the US you seem to be a bit more open and friendly, but obviously that just means it's even more weird not to have a chat with someone).

As for the experience issue, well that is key. Practice, practice, practice. Get out of your comfort zone. Go and chat with complete strangers. The newbie mission on here basically gets you to do this. Loads of people give this advice, because it's good! The more times you speak to random people, the better you get at talking to random people. As you get better, your confidence improves. When your confidence improves, you start to talk to even more random people. And as a result of talking to even more random people you get even better at doing it. So your confidence improves even more. Etc etc and it just goes round in one big self improving cycle!

That's my take on it all anyway!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:31 am 
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[quote="7000"]Not sure I entirely agree with johnchangmai and Mr. Assertive. I know a lot of lawyers through parents' contacts, law school friends/acquaintances etc. etc. Some of these lawyers I know are ridiculously goal orientated. I would go so far as to say they were ruthless in achieving their career goals. But put them in front of a pretty lady and they crumble to pieces.

A purpose is different from a goal.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:35 am 
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Quote:
Not sure I entirely agree with johnchangmai and Mr. Assertive. I know a lot of lawyers through parents' contacts, law school friends/acquaintances etc. etc. Some of these lawyers I know are ridiculously goal orientated. I would go so far as to say they were ruthless in achieving their career goals. But put them in front of a pretty lady and they crumble to pieces.

A purpose is different from a goal.

As for the rest of your post. Good points.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:02 am 
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Not sure I entirely agree with johnchangmai and Mr. Assertive. I know a lot of lawyers through parents' contacts, law school friends/acquaintances etc. etc. Some of these lawyers I know are ridiculously goal orientated. I would go so far as to say they were ruthless in achieving their career goals. But put them in front of a pretty lady and they crumble to pieces.

Confidence usually comes from one of two things, I find. Firstly, experience. Secondly, delusion (I will talk more about delusion below, I don't mean it in the usual sense of the word).

Experience - you do something a million times, you get good at it. You know you're good at something, you're confident in it. Even the most shy person will be confident in something - a sport, or the kitchen if they're a good cook, or with some of their model airplanes or whatever. Put them in their arena and they are confident in their own abilities, even if in their social interactions they are ridiculously shy and lacking in confidence. On a social front, if you go out, talk to new people regularly, and have had positive interactions with lots of new people from a relatively young age, then you just know you're good at it (consciously or subconsciously) because you've done it so many times before. You know you're good at it, you're confident in your ability to socialise with new people, you just do it easily.

Delusion - this can be one of a few things. It can be ignorance or a false experience. If you THINK you're good at something (even if you're terrible) then you can be confident. If you don't know the "dangers" of something, then you can come across as confident - you're a confident swimmer when you THINK the ocean is safe, but if you had realised that actually there were loads of hungry sharks or jellyfish nearby, you might not have been so confident. Socially - some people just naturally have a high "embarrassment threshold" - they don't really 'know' the social norms and "rules" that most people do, so they talk to everyone because they aren't restricted by these social norms that most of us have grown up with. Whether that's because their parents and family were very outside of the usual social "rules" so they picked it up naturally, or just because they are that sort of person, I expect there are examples of both.

So why aren't a lot of people confident - I think you can sort of turn those two things around. Firstly, lack of experience. You maybe only talk to a close group of friends and a few members of your family. You might smile and say hi to a few randomers, and maybe even have a couple of superficial "friendships" with a load of people, but in reality you have very few meaningful interactions with other humans. This means you just simply don't have the experience, you don't trust yourself in those situations, you don't know how to act in those situations.

Secondly, being too self aware. You know the "rules" of society. You don't want to be embarrassed because you've broken those rules. So instead you play it safe. You keep quiet. You don't talk to the stranger sitting opposite to you on the bus. You at most smile to the person who walks past you on the street, but don't stop and have a conversation. All because you don't want them to think you're "weird". Often, though, we see the "rules" of society as far more strict than they actually are.

How do you become more confident? Well, it's a bit of work on both of those aspects. The self awareness/delusion issue - well ultimately, the "rules" of society are generally wrong. You can get away with a lot more than those "rules" suggest. Obviously there is a line somewhere, but you can pretty much draw it where you want if you can carry it off in the right manner. But to use some of the examples I discussed above - if you talk to the stranger opposite you on the bus, 99 times out of 100 they will have a civil chat with you. 9 times out of 10 they will have a very friendly chat with you. But you never speak to strangers, because that 1 out of 100 people might think you're weird. Yet, if 99 out of 100 people would chat back to you (even if it was just a civil and short conversation) then that means that only 1 out of 100 people think you would be so weird that they would just ignore you. So if 1 person thinks something is weird, and 99 people think it isn't weird, what is actually weird? Arguably, sitting opposite another human being for 20 minutes on a bus, completely ignoring them and trying to avoid eye contact with your headphones in is far more weird than having a chat. Yet generally in society it seems the other way around! (Little note here: I think that is far more true in the UK; in the US you seem to be a bit more open and friendly, but obviously that just means it's even more weird not to have a chat with someone).

As for the experience issue, well that is key. Practice, practice, practice. Get out of your comfort zone. Go and chat with complete strangers. The newbie mission on here basically gets you to do this. Loads of people give this advice, because it's good! The more times you speak to random people, the better you get at talking to random people. As you get better, your confidence improves. When your confidence improves, you start to talk to even more random people. And as a result of talking to even more random people you get even better at doing it. So your confidence improves even more. Etc etc and it just goes round in one big self improving cycle!

That's my take on it all anyway!
^ this is very good, i would like to ad that with the experience have to come some degree of success, so you can be confident. Experience with no success will not make you confident. But 7000 really really good..

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:39 am 
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@7000 great post

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:59 am 
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a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances <had perfect confidence in her ability to succeed> <met the risk with brash confidence>
b : faith or belief that one will act in a right, proper, or effective way <have confidence in a leader>
2
: the quality or state of being certain : certitude <they had every confidence of success>
3
a : a relation of trust or intimacy <took his friend into his confidence>


Confidence is a state of mind. Not something you do or don't have. Everyone has confidence. There confidence levels regarding a particular area have to do with their level of competence in that particular area.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:31 pm 
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By far, the biggest influence on things, in regards to confidence, is held by the parents. Sure, society is a close second, but nothing compares to two independent, intelligent, fully emotionally developed and confident parents.
Most parents out there aren't even aware of the game, let alone teach their kids, a thing most people see as taboo. Why the fuck are parents for then? And why are these parents such losers? Because they were taught, or not, depending on their situation by their parents as well.
I always thought that every single person in the world needs two parents. A man and a woman. The father teaches the kids how to think, and the mother teaches the kid how to feel. It shouldn't be like it is, with shitty fathers that beat their wives, and the mothers that stick around, not knowing why.
Absent of those things, a person is left with unanswered questions that are, with time, filled by holes. Holes that develop into anxiety, self-consciousness, lack of confidence, and, in the worst cases, sociopathic and psychopatic behaviours.
Believe it or not, this is the beginning of all things. Confidence in "dating life" included.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:14 pm 
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The first step is acknowledge that you have control over your life and the way your life is now is because of the choices you have made. You suck with women because you suck. Accept it.
I think there are interesting comparisons to be made between the seduction community and religions or religious cults. One such similarity is that both provide a safe place where you can come and say "I suck, and I can't pretend otherwise anymore". Both offer an environment where it's okay to be a failure, and where you can get the necessary support to become better.

It has to do with society being built around the idea that everything's okay and the supposed success of others is what reassures us. We all have people around us that we consider "pillars of society" and we feel more secure about life because they seem to have it together, and we berate ourselves for not being more like them. We're also aware that many other people look at us and take comfort in knowing that we're not completely fucking our lives up either.

Having a place where it's okay to start over and to say "look, I don't have a clue what I'm doing here, and it terrifies me" is something that mainstream society doesn't offer. This is why when people want to get real with themselves, they don't go down the pub or talk to co-workers at the office. They go somewhere outside of the norm where the usual delusions and pretensions aren't entertained.

Everything that's already been said about needing practice and experience to gain confidence is true. But practicing means failing. Practising means being embarassed. Experience means mistakes. It all means stepping out from under that safe umbrella of your identity that you've built for yourself and being willing to risk being seen as a loser or a creep or whatever else you fear you might be labelled as. It's about saying that it's better to be known for what you are even if what you are sucks in some way than that to create a false facade of someone who has it together but doesn't.

So I think guys don't have the confidence because they don't have the experience. And they don't have the experience because they haven't been given permission to fail. They would rather look reasonably okay even if they're miserable, lonely and unfulfilled inside because that's considered better than striking out in a public and embarassing way. Guys don't have confidence because society would rather nurture a stalemate situation than have its feathers ruffled by having guys experimenting and getting things wrong and, god forbid, actually being okay with that.

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