Heh, I'm here to learn as well from experts like yourself. There's always so much to learn and improve.

Yes, my attitude was a bit harsh but I was trying to jack hammer a point here. And that is, judge others for others will judge you back. A natural game player judges no one. He goes in undetected and comes out undetected and shows respect to all the girls he came and tamed. At least that was what my friend taught me; he was natural at this.

Cause and effect. For the cause you caused, the effect is reflected back to you. An analogy here is a driver who drives really fast, but also provide edge of the seat sensation without upsetting the passenger. That's an experienced race driver. He gets from point A to B faster than an average AFC. The lady is the passenger. She then longs for more excitement. That's a natural player. For an AFC using game playing, his use of the gas pedal and brakes are erratic and felt manufactured. When things provide opportunity, he punches the gas pedal deep down rather than feather it. When things start going sour, he brakes hard deep. The passenger feels insecure. The edge of the seat sensation is so upsetting that the passenger wants out. The passenger feels unsafe. Not surprised the passenger feels upset and asked you to stop. The driver feels like the passenger is being over-reacting yet he does not see that his actions were the cause of the effect. If that passenger is the lady, I don't doubt she'll go nuts. But then, the inexperienced driver judged her (the passenger) as being insane and irrational.

Look yourself in the mirror, for what you see and do is reflected back. The mirror isn't the judge, it's you who judged back and the effect is what her woman is doing. Get it?

A natural player goes in and out like a phantom. All he's interested is raise and keep interest level high and determine her attitude. Is she dependable, honest, trustworthy, flexible and giving and compassionate. Eventually he will find the one and hang up his game to be with the one. The same one that some of you guys dumped just because you thought she was crazy.

In the end, I thank you guys for giving up. Otherwise, I wouldn't be with this great woman of mine.

Cheers!

Hey guys

So i want to say thank you guys for all the posts. I want to give you an update. So she sent me a message yesterday, saying that she loves me bla bla bla, but she is not in a place in her life where she feels like she can have a relationship. She also says she felt a bit suffocated and could not make her decisions freely because of having a partner to think about. She says she just doesnt "feel" the same anymore.

So i replied and told her that 2 weeks ago she wanted to marry me, and now she wants nothing to do with me, i said that sounds a little rash to me, and i told her she sometimes has these 2 sides of her personality. The one which is loving, generous, wants to have kids, get married etc. And on the other side which wants to be completely independent.I told her she needs to try find a balance. I told her this is not what i want, but i understand that things have gotten too much for her, and i will respect her decision. There is a three week holiday coming up in a week, i plan to go NC and really try and move on. I don't think she is emotionally stable enough to commit to a relationship, which is sad, because she is one of the most interesting girlfriends i have had. I broke up with my previous girlfriend for her, and i just never was as much intrigued before as i am with my current girl.

I screwed up a lot of times, i let my "chimp" or my emotions take over a lot of times, i got too comfortable, i definitely needed to be more of a challenge. But its a learning curve, i only discovered pua a year ago, but it has helped me a great deal. By the way, this girl is an 8 out of 10, SMOKIN hot body, pretty face. Id say im about a 7, so that's why i wanted to try make things work previously, but looks is definitely not a reason to stay around.

I now plan on working on my pua skills, and just have a lot of friends with benefits, maybe even this current girl after some months a part. I don't want anything serious, i went from a 2 and a half year relationship( i broke up with the girl, my reason i don't do long distance, but in actual fact i wanted to mess around and she didnt deserve that, she was such a loyal loving girl), straight into another 2 year relationship, after only about a month of messing around.

So my advice, don't get too attached while you are young, don't make your relationship your world, don't go from one relationship to the next without properly getting over your ex. And don't chase, period, i started out never chasing because i had so many options. Then i lost those, and i became the chaser. Don't make my mistakes. Be the man you were in the beginning. And don't forget your pua training.

sry to hear that... But you replied her too much... Trust me, one simple unaffected "ok" reply or no reply at all have some really big effect. She would feel dumped, and you would have great amount of power restored...

Delete this girl's number and never talk to her again, no matter what she says.

Don't even justify it with, "Well, you know, some days you were wanting to marry me and other days you wanted nothing to do with me..." Even if she came to her senses, you do not want to be involved with this girl at all. Imagine being married to her and seeing these swings. Scary ass shit.

_________________
"Let me ask you something. If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"

So today i wake up to a reply that read : I'm sorry! I feel so awful for doing this to you. I understand everything you said before, i know i am being so selfish and unfair right now, and i am so glad you never did this to me a year ago.(I had doubts about us) Thank you for EVERYTHING. I am so grateful and i love you so much for that. But i just can't pretend anymore in this relationship. Its unfair to you, and i am not in a relationship state of mind and im sorry i led you on in this relationship.I'M SORRY. If i stayed in the relationship, i know i would just end up hurting you more!

This message is a little confusing to be honest, because while we were holiday she showed real emotion, and cried and told me she is so glad i gave her another chance, and she wants to get married etc, like i mentioned previously. So the pretending part confuses me. But perhaps she was.

I should not have replied, but i fucked up, i replied "Pretending? so everything was a fake? the tears and moments of intense love too? I then told her im glad she told me because it makes it easier for me to move on" My reply is definitely not the greatest, i should probably not have reacted to her. Anyways just wanted to give an update.

Haha, TRUE STORY.

Haven't spoken to my ex in little over a week,Ex sent me a message last night, basically telling me she was thinking, and wants to tell me i was a really amazing bf with most things, and how i did so much for her, and goes on to mention some of the sweet things i did for her. She then tells me she just wanted to say thank you for everything, i did not want you thinking i never appreciated them. I honestly don't know what to make of it, and don't even know whether i should reply.

Low interest girls are usually like this. They behave like an emotional ping pong ball because they are trying very darn hard to justify why she doesn't like you and yet has feelings for you. Conscious mind fighting the subconscious. Hot and cold so to speak. She's basically a goner and the reason she's into the relapses is because they can't be alone or hasn't found a new guy to replace you yet. Typically, guys like yourself are kept as a reserve backup and girls are smart enough not to burn any bridges (those who do want to cross over back). I personally would only invest her as a cheap lay in the bed and that is all. Concentrate on getting a new girl and apply what you learned from your mistakes on the new her only. Trust me, I've been there before many times and all they're good for (if they do come back) is their pussies while you date other girls. That was then. These days, I just move on. It's quicker to heal and date better girls than your ex-girl. Trust me, there are better girls with better terms and awesome pussies than her! The faster you move on, the faster you decouple. Join a ballroom dancing club, if one is in your area. There are literally tons of girls vs very very few men and girls LOVE to dance. In ball room dancing, the man LEADS the girl. The girl basically takes command off you. This is actually good training for becoming Alpha because in dancing, it is your actions that cues the girl to move where you want them to move. Dance more trains you to use less words and MORE actions towards a girl (which is what PUA is all about) Same with dating hint hint! They teach you to have a strong frame (manly like).
The ratios between men and women is just incredible. Sometimes, there are 30 to 40 women to 1 man, because it takes an Alpha male to become a good dancer! You don't really need to be that good either, because very few girls are really good at it. You have the touching, caresing and eye contact all legal and all done because she has to to you!

If you know how to dance really well, women just falls over you. Never heard of a woman who does not like to dance with a great dancer. It's your power!

The only time she would really changed her mind is when she found you've changed to a new man and you are better than what she thought you were.

Take care.

Yeah, you could be right. Also this her also her first long term relationship. I don't think she understands why her emotions are so up and down, sometimes she "feels" in love, other times she feels everything is too much. She asked me out for lunch today,and told me she is seeing a psychologist, i politely declined and told her i have other plans,(i am not properly over her, she would of been able to tell, plus its too soon) but glad she is finding help.

I wish her emotions were not so up and down, its a shit situation, because i know i can't go back,ill just feel used, but dating other girls, just feels so weird, at the moment that is. I hope counselling will help, really tough seeing the girl you spent 3 months sleeping next to everyday and feeling like complete strangers. But life carries on.

It's a ploy with the psychologist excuse to get you out period. She does not need a therapist at all. What for, if you're not into a person, like you're not into buying an iPhone, do you see a doctor for that. Do you go see a doctor if you happen to keep buying and returning stuff to Best Buy? Probably not.

It's a common excuse from these girls. Know why I knew it? Cause I heard it before, so it's good they still keep playing this B.S on men.

She's a great manipulator, but hold on a sec here. Who's using who? Don't forget that you get to came inside her pussy (hopefully with a condom) and see her got to jerk off your cock and get orgasms when she wanted. Both of you mutually benefit, but in her case, she's a female version of a John except you get to pay for her free dinners and nights out or maybe hotel rooms/vacation stuff. You could of, from the get go, refuse to have sex with her (maybe dry humping is fine) and then play with your fleshlight and imagine fucking her for 3 months. See if within the 3 months, she's still want you. If not, you have the answer. If yes, then this explains you lacked self-control in sex and she's basically thinking her job to make you happy is sex and equate you as like all the other guys she dated. So you see, who's using who is a pretty touchy subject.

This is her first long term relationship? Well, maybe that's the case with her, but then what is defined as long term? If she used to drop guys within 3 months with sex and stuff, and then it took you longer this simply means you outlasted the other guys. OR, she really liked the sex and kept you a little longer. Either way, it sucks being felt used. But then, it's not her fault though. It is you that are attracting these kind of girls. Learn from this and find out why you are attracting the same girls again and again. It is when you learned and solve the underlying problems of yourself will then allow you to attract different kind of girls who don't play games and manipulate like a crazy chick. That's why, just go date new girls. The new one will always be better than the last, but perhaps you've already changed subconsciously. PUA skills help get and keep good girls, but can not keep lousy girls in the relationship.

No, she really needs to someone to talk to, don't think its about the relationship. But her family life is really fucked up at the moment, think i may have mentioned this before, but her dad is estranged, her mother lives in another country, while her Grandfather, who was her guider and who took care of her, passed away. So she has a lot to deal with. Her mom is also bipolar, and has skipped from one guy to the next all her life. Fucking bad role model to look up to, i sometimes wonder if she is not going to follow in her moms footsteps. Let me give you an example, sometimes children that were abused grow up to be abusers, just because they don't know any other way. Even though at first, she wanted to be the complete opposite of her mom , i remember after breaking her virginity, she said she wanted me to be the last, because of how ashamed she is of her mom. Now of coarse that is highly unlikely, but her sheer intensity of emotion convinced me. But i don't see that same girl anymore. She goes through periods of being cold, and distant, and its slowly becoming more of a trend.

Well, i broke her virginity, and was her first boyfriend, yeah, wasn't thinking when i got so attached to this girl. Really wasn't. She doesn't have any other experience to base what she is going through on, and iv tried to "teach" her relationship dynamics, but of coarse its a lot more difficult in reality. Its true what you said about sex, in the beginning of our relationship, when i didn't really take her that seriously, i used to just go over and have sex, then fall asleep, makes me cringe at how i mistreated her, but ironically it was during those periods her feelings were the most intense. I suppose because i was a challenge.

But that was a long time ago, a yeah and a half ago. What i don't know is how the hell to get her not to be so rash in her decision making. How do you get commitment from a girl like that, when her feelings are up, she speaks about marriage and kids, when her feelings are down, she just ends things. I will never go back to her, i made myself that promise, but i would not mind having her as a friend with benefits down the line when i'm properly over her. This is the first girl i have really struggled with. In all my other past relationships, i was the dumper, and to this day they still want me back after they have dated other guys. I can't seem to strike that balance with this girl, of love and care, with the whole mysterious challenge part. Holiday starts tomorrow, i leave for my home town, she stays here, i'm hoping these 3 weeks will give me a good chance to really get over her, but when i come back, i need some form of plan, or some guidelines of improvements i need to make. Are there any books how to handle emotional unstable girls? Or well very intuitive girls who base decisions purely on there feelings at a certain point in time.

Most of these girls want to really know how you tick. So they blast you with all kinds of emotional and future stuff. All you can do with her is to deflect those right back at her. Like having kids, reply to her how many, and then she said 2, you then say boys or girls? etc. blah blah. If she said you like kids, just answer to her "but honey we're not married yet" blah blah. Deflect and re-lead her. Part of the mystery is to NOT confess or agree with her completely what she wants. Sure she wants to marry you and have kids, but that's because you broke her virginity. Girls like that didn't let you into their pussies without some assurances that you will actually keep her. The thing is that, if you agree with her, she thinks you're lying only to get sex from her. All this sweet talk is just talk. If you deflect without giving her a straight answer, it keeps her guessing. She needs to work harder on you to get you.

Girls always become emotional just because they are. I don't have books as I am always a hands on person. I wouldn't worry about the parents, though they do have some influence on her. I would worry on how you frame yourself so she doesn't illicit any emotional response out of you. When you lead her with an Alpha confident frame, most of these emotional girls become easily tamed. I think your game is improving because you are drawing a new kind of girl that you hadn't attracted from previous girls. If your game is the same, you always get the same kind of girls! So, this is actually good news.

I tell people that when you sh*t test rebound girls, you should do it in a view of a FWB relationship. But it doesn't mean you have to fuck her (which some people here seemed to misunderstood). It's simply to illicit an emotional response out of her to probe her feelings and call on her bluff. When women have feelings towards you, FWB is a reasonable request because she knows what she needs to do to get you back via sex! What do you think women use as a hook for their men?!?
If women stop texting or calling after you proposed your terms and conditions to her, you know they are full of sh*t. I personally do not want to be her friend zoned puppies she keeps around for amusement. Some boys think it's cool to have a back door, but it's not even a back door. So, it's good you are doing well on this.

Alright i will take some of that advice. She still had a key to my room, so she surprised came over last night, i was already a little drunk. She was pretty sober. She burst into tears telling me she went out last night, and this guy kissed her, but she didn't turn away. Lol, like i believe that shit, but we were broken up, can't really hold it against her. But my friends were at the same club, shows little respect if you ask me.

Anyways, i told her i don't think i can ever go back, she begged me to reconsider. I told her, lets see how the holidays go, we eventually had sex, fucked her hectically good, she squirted everywhere, really gave her a good last bang. I don't think i want to go back, she was telling me how she feels she has a void inside of her, and she feels her self-esteem is so low, so when other guys show her attention it feels good. Yeah, RED FLAGS. She is a solid fuck. But i really need to get the fuck out while i can.

During make up periods, don't put too much emphasis on sex. You want to turn the sex relationship into a mutually loving relationship with sex as the bond that tie both of you. Most of these sex relationships (and I'm as well almost everyone in the forum are guilty of) are based on sex as the pure attraction which people believe equals to love with total disregard of personality compatibilities and ideologies. It's the instant attraction and pleasure obtained from sex that clouded both male and females. We use PUA skills to maintain and fish this drug addiction until it starts wearing off and it will because there's no backbone structure to the relationship itself. Which is probably why somebody here keeps posting that relationships in general dies off in about 2 years. Yeah, if you depend on getting highs via drugs, then you can only last for so long. No rocket science here. The ages that this happens are usually around 17-25 yrs old. 30 yrs to 45 yrs, it happens much less.

What you are experiencing and she too is post-sex withdrawal. She's going crazy not understanding why she's loosing the feeling.
During the makeup period, concentrate in developing the compatibility aspect of you and her or the future her. Let her and you understand each other. This work takes a heck a lot longer to develop the feelings. There are no short-cuts, but studies had shown that 30% of couples that came out of a sex based relationships went on to become loving long term relationships, which includes 2 of my friends (one took him 7 years to build the love connection and another 12 years). You must really really love that girl to give her another chance.
Obviously, it's heck of a lot easier to start from scratch with a cleaner slate.

If you want a long term relationship to work, find a girl that seemed to jive with you personality and interest wise and you don't really need someone like her to make you sexually happy either. But you must work on yourself to improve your frame to attract these ladies. There are lots of them. The sex is more dynamic and passionate; quite different from sex based only relationships. If you must fuck, then just walk away after the drug wears off.

Good luck!