So I've been seeing this girl for several weeks. She's cute, nice body, very smart, funny, and we bounce off each other very well. She has a strong personality and I like that.

The problem is, she doesn't show affection. At all. No exaggeration.

The only physical affection she instigates is during a movie (cuddling up) or sex (and even then not much beyond the necessary motions). No random small kisses (not even on the cheek or anything, even in private; she hates PDA), no holding my arm, no holding hands (unless I take hers), no stroking the arm or any of those other small but potent physical touches that people do when dating. Just cuddling and almost touchless sex. I'm very big on physical affection so this is a problem for me.

Verbal affection is literally non-existant, too. In fact, the majority of the dynamic of our relationship is busting on each other... mostly her busting on me at EVERY opportunity. Which is weird, because before we started dating she never did it half as much. We just talked and joked and got to know each other.... But then we started dating and it's like she flipped a switch. Which is fine, but not when it defines the entire relationship. In fact, it almost feels as if she's deliberately trying to do it. It's even to the point where it's hard to have a normal conversation with her or get to know each other without her de-railing it into teasing/making fun of each other. The closest thing to affection she's shown so far is when I brought her flowers for V-day and Advil (she had a headache)... All she said was "Awww, look at you" with a big smile on her face. Which is positive, sure, but when that's the most affectionate thing she's said/done, it's kind of weak. And it's really starting to bug me.

Based on the above I would think this all means she's just looking for FWB or isn't into me, but when we started going out she explicitly said she's not looking for a FWB, that she only sleeps with people she dates (and she did stop me when I tried to escalate during making out with her once or twice). She's also introduced me to her friends and often texts me first and responds immediately to my texts, with hers being considerably thought out/long.

This might sound like bitching but I'm really just confused as hell. I like her, and she obviously likes me or we wouldn't be dating (she usually responds to my texts immediately and often texts me first). But her behavior has really dissuaded me from showing any more affection, because it feels one-sided and unrequited.

Any insight is seriously appreciated. Thanks guys.

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D.G.A.F. isn't just a state. It's a lifestyle.

Ok, listen up.

I'm exactly like you & my gf used to be the exact same. ( she's extremely smart, and keeps things to herself. never seeks drama. One that prefers watching brainiac over Jersey shore.... a good one :p )

What works? If you like her & want to be commited to eachother for days/weeks/months/years to come.

Tell to her EXACTLY how you feel. Be honest and truthfull. No games.
That way you'll never blaim yourself for anything in the future.

"Hey, I need to talk to you. This isn't gonna be uncomfortable, it's nothing bad. I just want to share something with you, so no worries ok?
I'm an honest person & I like to say what's on my chest. That's both fair to you and myself.
SO here goes!, .. baby, i'm a really affectionate guy. I love my family, my friends & I like to feel loved and wanted. It makes me feel good. I'm only human.

I feel for some reason that you need affection a bit less then me ( ask her if that's true )& that makes me wonder sometimes I know you care about me a lot logically, but emotionally I can't really seem to feel it. This might be something that never even crossed your mind so that's why I thought I'd let you know how I felt about this.
I like you a lot If I didn't I wouldn't tell you these things, hehe. So baby, talk to me "

This is just an example.

I've been together with my gf for a while now & the second you notice she is conciously making an effort to suddenly show her affection, not because she needs it but because she loves you so much she is willing to do anything to make you feel good. well.. at that moment, you know you've got yourself a good one
Overtime, the investment of trying to make you feel good will grow to a point where it will make herself feel good & it will become natural, without thought.

I really hope this helped you.

Let me know how things turn out

btw: There are no MAN / WOMAN roles in a good relationship. There's only 1.
If you are more emotional then she is, so be it. Don't fake it, ever.
It's not always the woman that's the emotional one and the guy that's the rock.
You can still be a man who takes care of bizz and have feelings, watch Vin diesel's interviews.

& the best part,
once you show complete honesty, they sometimes unlock and turn into BEASTS in bed, i'm not even kidding.

JC. ( my first actual reply here on the forum :p )

Thanks, for a 1st reply that was pretty good... It might be awkward at first because we haven't had any "serious" or "real" talks in person yet, but it sounds a lot better than playing games.

Something I should probably mention... I'm moving to Korea in about 2 months. I thought that might be a factor in it, like she doesn't want to get emotionally attached if she knows the relationship has an expiration date. But hanging out and being open with each other sounds better than hanging out and wanting to show the person you care, but resisting.

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D.G.A.F. isn't just a state. It's a lifestyle.

Same advice as the previous poster: talk to her about it. Three tips:
1. Think in advance about what you want from her, and make this as concrete as possible. E.g. when do you want to see more affection, how can she show this, etc.
2. Announce to her that you want to talk about something serious so that she'll know it's not a time to joke around.
3. State clearly what you think is going on, but do not forget to listen to her side of the story. For example, you might be spot on with the Korea-thing, but it might also not have anything to do with it at all.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

I disagree,

1. It's her personality, you have no right to demand a change from her. Talk to her in a playful non-threatening way, not juding her, just telling her how you feel. That way if she DOES change her behaviour it will be because she wants to make you happy, not because you demand it from her.

Chores and own intent are 2 totally different things. You get tired of chores, and you grow fond of doing the things you do out of own interest or feeling.

2. Do not announce anything serious, you need to get her in an open & honest vibe, a relaxed vibe. Because you are sharing your feelings with her, not ARGUING, not demanding ANYTHING from her. Otherwise she will get into the defensive.. you don't want to go there, it doesn't get you anywhere.

3. State clearly what you FEEL is going on. You are talking to a girl here. If you want any type of investment from her part you must not get into logic too much. If what she does makes you feel less of a man sometimes she will more then happy make up for that by being more of a girl to you. If she sees it makes you happier, it will only amplify it. The fact you talk about something like this and throw pride outside the window, she will see you as a true alpha, a true honest individual, that can say or do whatever he wants and feels. When you talk about logic & what she sometimes DOES, it will only lead to an A versus B boring conversation and maby get her in a defensive mode.

Get rid of the mask that way to many people carry & be your true self.
You will feel extremely good once you feel like you aren't faking anything.

Fuck all the games.

You're in a relationship now, throw that shit into the water. It serves you no good.
When you find someone who likes you for who you are, who you TRULY ARE. O boy, iz like drugz.

Telling her you play world of warcraft and that you were bullied in college is not gonna make her think less of you, on the contrary. She might actually play it with you and share some of her insecurities. And that is what you want, someone you can tell ANYTHING. Woman who are scared by that and feel like they are better are chasing something they will never find. They want the hollywood guy and therefor act like the hollywood girl, but hey! psss, BIG SECRET, shhhht... "none of them are real" O M G, mindfuck! Eventually they come to terms and realise what they've been doing was horsecrap. If you meet someone who's still in that fase, drop them. They aren't ready.

Finding someone you can be yourself with is what I find defines a true relationship.
If you want a relationship where both parties can fuck other people and both be cool with it & still love eachother, you need this emotional connection. When you have that, no physical act with another person will make her change her mind, because she shares with you what very few couples share, honesty, total fucking honesty, both in feelings and logic.

It is not something I seek in a relationship, I like monogamy very much. But I think that's what good and strong swinging couples share. Besides the dicks, titts and vaginas. Pardon my language, I'm drinking some weird coffee from the mountains of wahalwakasha.

Hope this helps my friend, and most of all, I hope that this is making sense

Damn dude, great post !

Much love

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Heat

I disagree so i didn't even read it all.

i have the same problem with one girl. Hates hand holding, explicitly said she doesn't need anything sexual of phisical. What you need to do.

1. Find out where this is coming from (was she raised that was- with less phisical contact; did she had a boyfriend who she stopped loving but contiued to have sex with and dating him)
2. Tell her she should just try and let go because these little things like holding hands is the most beautiful thing. Especially when you grab her hand and she grabs yours back, and vice versa.
3. Some girls just have walls around them. You cannot tear them down, you have to get them to open the doors for you.
4. Try not putting it in the frame that she needs to do that for you. Tell her in a way that will make her feel like that is something beautiful for HER.

But i do agree, tell her. Maybe her previous BF didn't like that and now she isnt doing that, even though she might want to. just dont push her

And tell her that you just want to make HER happy. And you want her to feel the same way you do when she holds your hand because it's the best feeling.

You want to avoid her feeling repulsed when holding hands. But if you tell her in the right way, she will eventually want to try and get that feeling you are talking about.

You have a very roundabout way of agreeing with me.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Holy shit, its like Dr Phil in here haha. Strongly disagree with the advice of making an issue out of it.

Firstly, you've only been seeing her a few weeks! Girls that get overly effectionate early in a relationship usually end up being clingy, needy and have emotional problems (Freaks). So this is a sign that your girl is a HSE healthy good girl. Healthy girls don't suddenly just flick a switch and start bombarding you with affection and love early on like needy freaks do. They take the time to develop a connection first. Which makes sense don't you think? If you want to be affectionate thats fine, just do it without needing the same from her (yet). An alpha gives without needing anything in return (needing = beta). Give it some time, don't get needy, and pretty soon she will be clinging to you like a koala bear (field tested).

The fact that she jokes around alot and busts on you is good. Just make sure you give it back to her! If she busts on you and you don't take it to heart it shows her you are a confident guy and don't take yourself too seriously, which in hand makes you more attractive to her. Me and my girl still bust on eachother all the time after 3 years, and its an amazing relationship!

Thanks, but I don't NEED her to show me affection. I WANT her to. If I've been in a relationship with a girl for 2 years, then she's going to have to exhibit some affection if I'm going to stick around her. Same concept applies to a girl I've only been dating a few weeks, but on a lower level. Like I said, she exhibits NO affection. Not even a little bit. If you were to look at the way she acts around me and how we talk, you would think she is not sexually/emotionally interested in me at all if not for the fact that we hold hands or kiss (and even then, its like holding hands with a mannequin and she often breaks off the kissing very soon to make some kind of stupid joke or bust on me unless we're in bed). If I give her a compliment or some kind of IOI, she returns it with an IOD... even if she's joking, there's got to be SOME kind warmth in the background. But there isn't.

Like I said, busting on each other is great. But not when it defines the very dynamic of the relationship, because it gets obnoxious and old super fast. When we have an actual conversation, or make jokes that aren't at each other's expense, it feels new and strange. I try to push things in that direction, btu she always brings it back to play-insulting and busting and IODs. I was going to see if she could hang tonight, but after giving her an IOI or two and her responding by just busting on me or giving an IOD, I don't even want to talk to her anymore now (example: she's studying Psych, so I made a stupid joke "If you were a straight jacket, I'd wear you" or "If I was crazy, I'd be your patient".... Her response was: "I'm going to have to decline both"... Wouldn't care if this was an occasional thing, but this is the kind of attitude she has towards me ALL THE TIME... that literally sounds like the kind of response i'd get if i texted that to a girl who wasn't interested in me).

Next time I hang out with her I'm going to bring it up. This shit has become too much.

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D.G.A.F. isn't just a state. It's a lifestyle.

If you don't like the way she responds to your stupid jokes, stop making stupid jokes. You are causing the dynamic that you don't like.

And if you're that needy for affection, get a second girlfriend who's more comfortable with showing it.

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For my unfiltered rants on Game and Gender Dynamics, check out "The Mask And Rose:"
http://themaskandrose.wordpress.com

Baron my man, you are being beta.

You say you dont NEED her to show affection, but everything that comes after that betrays you. You are in denial. You WANT to believe you dont NEED it, but if you read carefully what you said yourself, you will see you are being needy if you bring this up with her:

"I WANT her to" translates into the same as needing...when you feel the NEED for something, then of course you naturally WANT it...then read what comes up next:

"If I've been in a relationship with a girl for 2 years, then she's going to have to exhibit some affection". Again, you are saying you NEED affection for the relationship to work...thats what you are saying.

Now here's the thing...theres nothing wrong with needing her affection: Hell, I need my girlfriends affection too...but we all know "its beta do be needy" man. Now in my opinion, the misconception here is that its not "beta to be needy inside yourself", its actually natural: we all need something. But HELL YES you will look beta if you let ANY of that neediness be seen by her eyes.

So yes, what Ïm trying to say is, dont seat down with her and say you need affection (you obviously wouldnt use these words - but still dude, just dont!). Slowly drive the dynamic of the relationship to wherever it pleases you....Meaning, maybe dont give any more IOIs. Straight out bust her harder, and win the bust war hard.

Either that, or anything else that gets her craving for IOIs so much that SHE starts IOIng you in an attempt to get some....or something like that...

But yeah man, summing up, you do seat down and talk to her about it, you will be likely to sound like a girl begging for a little love, and you will be in for a world of pain. It will ruin your relationship. Probably not immediately, but you will be setting yourself up... Enjoy the relationship as it is man...with time things change, but they should change because the dynamic naturally (or sneakly) changed, not because you "begged" her to change it...

Ah, and I dont know if you ever read any PUA books, but if you did, its now the time to reread it man... Your fundamentals are falling off man.

You are showing signs of "oneitis", and apparently you forget that if theres a chance that her IODs are (somewhat?) real, combined with the fact that her body language around you is more inclined towards a "not so attracted" type of body language, then you probably dont have a strong attraction going on, and thus shouldnt be giving out any IOIs at all man....At least not until you have that alpha image going on, and some strong attraction and qualification!!!!

So yeah, work the basics!

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to take it to heart.

It's over though. She "wanted to talk" tonight. Turns out she's not comfortable "having sex" with someone who's going to be gone in a few months when there's no future with him. So she's been deliberately pushing me away because of that once we started dating. Or at least I thought we were dating. A few weeks ago she told me she didn't consider us sexual (we hadn't fucked yet) and she wasn't looking for a FWB. So logically I assumed we were dating. She did not, though I don't understand what mental gymnastics she pulled off to see me as someone who's not a FWB that she's also not dating but at the same time spending lots of time with and having sex with as well. Her reasoning was the first time we fucked we were drunk, so apparently it doesn't count. The 2nd time she did it because she got caught up in the "heat of the moment" and didn't want it to be 1 sided (until we fucked, she was just grinding on top of me to get off, leaving me with blue balls. I put a stop to it and the next night we fucked). Like she was doing me a favor or some shit. And then she acted surprised when I got pissed off at her for her shitty double talk.

Long story short it got ugly fast. I was tired of her saying one thing and acting like another ("I don't do FWB and don't want to date but let's hang out, kiss, and fuck..." Also I brought her flowers for V-day and she asked me to take her somewhere nice when I said we should dress up for dinner sometime... yet she "didn't know" we were dating...) so I bitched her out and told her to stop contacting me.

I'm sure there's a lesson here somewhere but I'm too tired of this shit to think of one right now. Thanks for your advice anyways guys.

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D.G.A.F. isn't just a state. It's a lifestyle.

So you are needy, but don't dare show it? I find this a strange mindset to recommend. My mindset is that I don't need my girlfriend's affection, I will not die or feel depressed without it. My baseline is happiness, she can add to that by giving me affection, which is why I want her affection. But, I can function perfectly well and lead a happy, rich, fulfilling life without it.
The idea of begging her to change, or 'sneakily' trying to change her personality by manipulation comes from a mindset of neediness. I did not recommend to beg, I recommended to talk to her and be open and honest about what the OP wants from this relationship. If she cannot provide that, it may not be a good match. That is not begging, that is choosing.

EIDT: Just read the last post, sorry to hear that man. I think the lesson to take away from this would be that any type of relationship requires extensive communication, even in the beginning.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.