Well good. Reflection is important. If you cant see what happens at all vantage points you will have a harder time on this growth journey. Also remember there are other girls out there. Being vested in just one so hard and so fast will smother any prospects. Its best to spread it out and enjoy the relationship. If your spending too much time not happy or in your own head with frustration you might be better off just letting it sit until it gets to be fun again. Also remember there are no rules and that you can change what you want about what you feel and do. You can also try to change her but you will be spending way more energy and people generally fight against some one who is trying to help. I don't know why people like to swim against the current. Now go out and talk to some new people. Go ahead start slow maybe the girl at the Batista who works there. She needs to be nice to you and is trapped behind the counter.

_________________
Why guys and girls don't mesh.

"Chicks are crazy and guys are dumb." Chinopants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... a_Nno&NR=1

Hey Chino!

Thanks man for not jumping my shit...

I'm feeling like I got my ass kicked last night. I don't want to lose this girl but I don't want to keep feeling like shit just for trying to impress her so much.

That is/was the core problem. I went waaaaaay overboard in doing way too much for her and she felt like it was controlling.

She did just send me this text message about 0 minutes ago:

"I made plans w David 3 weeks ago for him to try yoga, being complete w him wasn't me not getting over him-- it was about him being able to be my supervisor without weirdness between us; I don't hang out w ex's now unless in group activities. This was going to be the first time David and were social outside of supervision since we broke up. I don't have unresolved attachment feelings for any former boyfriends. I was distancing myself from you as I felt your behavior was feeling controlling. I'm sorry you felt that way last night to leave that message. I understand and still want to be w u and leave it up to you what you want to do."

So, I am so beat down right now I have no idea what to do, or how and when to respond to her.
A friend of hers told me that I am the first guy to break up with her and usually she is the breaker person.

So, what do you guys think? Text her back now? (probably no)

Text her back tomorrow morning and say something like: "Good Morning Sunshine, Today is a beautiful new day for us"

Or WTF?

You guys are keeping me sane here...hahaha!

quick update...
she called me, I answered but we got nowhere. Because she is a therapist, I feel that she is looking at our issue cilincally rather than emotionally.

She said that i've lost trust with her because I was a nice caring guy and now I'm changing into a guy who has controlling behaviors.

I said no, I don't want to break up with you (which is EXACTLY what i think she was fishing for..) but that I felt that last night I had no choice.

I said okay, I know we have had a rough week, why don't we get together and just chill and have fun etc., etc. She kept putting the "Well, first you send me the letter showing me you had "regained" your balance, then 1 hour later you are breaking up with me". So I can't get together with you right now.

We also talked about her thinking that i was jealous over this David dude. I could give a damn is what i said. My concern was that you are "helping him understand his attachment issues" but yet you won't spend minute with me to work on ours...

I honestly don't care about the David thing per say as I have all this other stuff to work thru.

We ended the first conversation with me saying "Okay, why don't you casll me when you think you're ready to resume our relationship and if i'm ready that's good"

She said okay and we hung up.

Now I'm a bit pissed so I call her back and say "Hey, how about we compromise a little bit? let's just get together tonight for a coffee and hang out and taslk for a little while"

She says "well, that really bothers me because this is a good example of what i'm talking about with your mood swings and controlling behaviors"

I said "Controlling Behaviors? I just want to see you. Remember, it was you who went from you and I being naked with each other, after making love, and i'm rubbing your feet for hours and looking into your eyes thinking I have it made, to you two days later saying You don't want to be around me because I overwhelmed you".

Her reply was that was because I had reached my limit with the controlling behaviors you were exhibiting.

Then she adds: "You also signed up at MY YOGA STUDIO, you drive like 15 minutes to get there. That is my place to mediatate and relax"

At that point I said "What you just said fucking pisses me off. You encouraged me to sign up there and never once did you complain about it. That's fine, i'll just go to the other studio and not yours. I've gotta go... good Bye" And I hung up.

15 minutes later she texts me: I'm sorry what i said about the yoga studio. I said it out of anger"

So DAMN IT,,, why i answered the phone is beyond me. I had the upper hand asnd then i lost it.

Right now I think it's best to stay away from her and just chill out and sarge a bit to feel good about myself.

Fuck, i even told her when we were talking the first time, "Hey, all I'm guilty of is trying too hard to impress you in every way"

Damn if I have no idea what to do...as usual.

This might sound wack but when you went away she chased after you. When you chase after her she pulls away. Your better off being the one being chased. When you set a line in the sand and told her that you needed time and you set the rules she lost control and wanted it back. She baited you in to an argument and tested you by calling you controlling and also saying that stuff about the yoga studio. Remember every time you talk to her shes testing you and your job is to see what the test is and know the answers. Its not black or white but she speaks in a different language. Give it time and don't get all wishy washy. Shes using this controlling behavior crap as a test. Your just sending mixed singles. Keep strong and don't be a wuss. Going over board with the mush and also showing anger are not attractive features for a guy. Be stable and don't get emotional. That's what girls are susposta do. I hope you can start to see it now that its happened and you see what the reactions are to what she and you did. Next she will be sabotaging stuff so its easier for her to break it off with you. When you pulled the trigger first it jerked her in to reality and most girls don't play there. Lets it lie and don't contact her. When the phone rings let it go and don't answer. Let her chase you and you try not to be an easy catch.

_________________
Why guys and girls don't mesh.

"Chicks are crazy and guys are dumb." Chinopants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... a_Nno&NR=1

Dude, let this woman find a better guy. I read your thread yesterday, came home and it's a completely different story. You DO have mood swings and you still went into full blown text convo and email with her. I literally went to work and came home and you've texted her a novel, left a vmail crying and emailed her.Right after saying you'd back off. I can't even tell if she has anything with the ex because you really are overwhelming her. I almost threw up when I read that. Seriously. You're not ready for a relationship, you're needy and insecure. You can't change quickly and you'll ruin this womans life the more you stay with her with those issues.

You said "Call me when you're ready to resume this relationship" then later you ring her again practically begging her to hang out tonight.

You're all over the place! Its unattractive and you will look insecure and like you don't know what you want. Be straight with her, tell her what you want and then leave the ball in her court. I think that's your best play now, stop playing games, and STOP with the stuff about her ex. She has explained the situation and now you just need to believe her, you obviously do give a shit about her hanging out with him at yoga no matter what you say. You're going to destroy this relationship.

This 100 times. This^ I was going to say the exact same thing, including the "I almost threw up" part. She needs to work on her issues as well, because she should have broke up with you a long time ago.

I was going to leave it at that, and break up with this tread, but your GF and I have something in common. That freakin' stubborn I-can-fix-it attitude. I see you're a good guy. A good guy who is his own worst enemy. And I want to help.

My advice is break up and go work on yourself.

Just fyi, these are some of the things I saw you do wrong, and why you did them.

"Controlling Behaviors? I just want to see you." You want to see her and try and force every interaction to your goal. You are trying(and failing) to control every conversation, the narrative or frame, and how she feels about you. You're being FAKE.

This is you trying to hard to control the narrative. She says 2or3 times she doesn't want to read your letter. She knows it will do no good. You force it on her anyway. You didn't have a revelation, and now everything will be different. No one is buying that.
"Me:...I was just journaling out my feelings about everything... It is actually both funny and serious... I would love to share it with you"
"Me: Oh, I emailed you the letter... It's like a revelation..."

This is you trying to hard to be cute so she'll like you. It's fake and forced.
Me: On a sidebar, you text cute as hell, you know that right?
Me: Yes, u r so cute w the way you say stuff. Idk how u do it

Me: I know you have some pointy.... Ahhhh, nevermind
Me: Are you curious what you have that's pointy?
Her:No
Me: It was your pinky fingers...

Do you see you have an issue with control?
"So DAMN IT,,, why i answered the phone is beyond me. I had the upper hand and then i lost it."
You think you need the upper hand or she wont give you what you want.

All you show that you care about is getting what YOU want, and you fear you must act immediately, or you wont get it.
"Me:...I'm doing the 9:30 ZUDA tomorrow. It would be fun if you wanted to go... Maybe we could grab a coffee after..."
"Me: I could swap my yoga times around and that actually might work better for me...it would be fun to see you... "
"I know we have had a rough week, why don't we get together and just chill and have fun"
"...call me when you think you're ready to resume our relationship..."
"Hey, how about we compromise a little bit? let's just get together tonight for a coffee and hang out and talk for a little while"

All I see is "give me what I want."

All I can say is looks like I deserved it coming then huh?

Damn if I could recognize what my shortcomings are. but it took all of you guys to point it out to me.

I'm man enough to admit I fucked things up. Did i do it on purpose? Hell no, but I could have controlled the outcome by the way you guys expalined things to me.

Let this be a lesson in a lot of things...

I know it has been for me, I regret all of it...

Fuck.

Hey Chino...

thanks for all the help with this...

I know i screwed up badly but I just couldn't help myself... even bickering with her today got me no where.

Not that it will do any good, but i did call her and left a voice message just saying that I really felt that we were texting too much and a lot of it was getting misunderstood.

I'm not looking for an excuse but I can easily see where we had a lot of "issues" that really stemmed from the misunderstood meaning of her or my texts to each other. In fact, she even admits it herself.

There might still be a glimmer of hope. In reality, everything really was going super nicely until I accidentally pushed her too far...

Anyway, Thank you for the help. I am going to post this in the posting as well but I wanted to thank you personally first.

Mike

Dude, you don't really have options here. You have no chance right now to get with her. I mean 0%.

The only chance you got is if you cut contact. When I say cut contact I mean don't talk to her for months, doesn't matter if she calls or not. This might help you to clear your head. If you don't do this you loose her, period.

I enjoy this thread btw it's very educational.

thanks AFC,

We actually have talked just a tiny bit.

I feel that she knows i'm a good guy and that my intentions were golden even though I pushed her away so hard with my neediness...

I'm gonna hang in there for her. some of the guys on here jumped my shit totally yesterday, and rightly so in one regard... that I fucked things up completely with my neediness and insecurity.

but, at least I see that and I can work on it. some guys on here never get the clue that is them who have made the mistakes, not her.

Only she knows I have a heart filled with love for her and that I NEVER meant to hurt her in a million years.

She KNOWS that and I know that.

Thank you for not giving me even more misery even though I obviously deserve it.

I honestly feel that you really don't get too many chances at "True Love". This was one of my chances....

hopefully I didn't fuck it up forever.

Thanks Man,,, I appreciate your words of support as well as I appreciate those who railed me for being such an asshole to her...

I live and learn man... something new everyday...

crazy story bro! I know exactly how you feel when I'm really into a girl. But you have to hold back and only match her. Never text more than she texts you. If she texts you one line, you return with one line. You have to reciprocate the whole way. Also, the corny lines like I love you and your so beautiful, damn bro I felt shame for you. no offense! When you really like a girl, this is very hard to follow but you have to or else shes gone.

I have read absolutely nothing in this thread except the OP and this is what I have to say:


Showering anyone with love is NEVER,NEVER a good idea.There are SO many things that can go wrong because of this.

People are vicious. Shower them with love and you know what you'll get ? You'll be taken for granted. And guess what ? that is the very BEST case scenario. You wanna settle for that ? best case scenario you'll be taken for granted. Do you even wanna imagine what worse case is ?

My advice is you shouldn't listen to just about anything everyone has to say.In my opinion there is one golden rule:

Never give anyone more than they deserve.There are too few, way too few people who know to appreciate it that.
And remember ,even if you think / feel she deserves the world , its not necessarily true.

Oh and one more thing:
Really ? I know you think that now , but she , you , me , and pretty much everyone else knows thats not true. Sometime , somehow , you WILL hurt her. There cannot be happiness without suffering.

Dont make promises you can't keep. Don't promise her you wont hurt her , promise her that if you will hurt her / or better yet, WHEN you hurt her , you'll also care enough for her to repair your wrongs.
Is any of this helpful in any way ?

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

RC is right: I found this out quickly even though it seemed like a good idea at the time... Yes RC this is solid advice. So is the idea of promising not to hurt her... Jesus! What did i just do? I hurt the shit outta her! this one is a palm slap to the forehead...

3fiddy nails it pretty good on this point as well:
One of the biggest mistakes I made was waaaaayyyyy over texting her, that plus way too many texts per day.

Chinopants suggestion hits home because of what happened today...
What happened today was I talked to her Mom. (Her Mom LOVES me, we hit it off right from the start and she is my biggest supporter) Right as I was talking to her, her Mom said "Wait, she wants to talk to you"

Now, my girl gets on the phone and at first we talked about her not feeling good at all last night, throwing up over and over, feeling like she had the flu... just decent stuff. She was not bummed out at all that I had called her Mom, if fact, it worked to my advantage as I was calling to see how she was doing anyway...

Of course the conversation turned to what was going on so I kept my mouth shut and just listened mainly. She basically said that she felt that I had gone from being one type of guy to another by freaking when she said she needed space, (I agreed) she also said that it scared her because it made her lose her trust in me because of that.

I made no excuses for the way I handled things and straight up admitted that i made a mistake. I took the responsibilty for what i did instead of making excuses. Then she went into how she isn't sure that she wants to be with a guy like me who acted like that (ummm, no shit!) I made no attempt to "talk her out of it".

She continued to say that she needed time to re-approach our relationship and really didn't want to be a relationship babysitter to me... (another uhhhh, no shit!-I see it so clearly now...) There were no arguements or conflicts (up until this issue we NEVER had any problems at all). She didn't fully commit to the idea of us but I think there is hope.

I never asked her to "get together" or "When can we go out"... nothing. Yesterday she was angry and asking for some of her stuff back... today that never came up at all. And the things she wanted back yesterday were important to her like a very special book she loaned me to read and a $75 yoga mat towel... She also blasted me about what she called my "Mood Swings" when all of this was going down so i stepped up and said how I felt but very calmly.

I said that on Tuesday of last week we were laying naked next to each other and I'm rubbing your back while we stared into each other's eyes... and I'm thinking love couldn't ever be better for me, to 2 days later you are telling me that you need to be away from me, that you needed "time". I also apologized and said that i was only human and we all make mistakes occasionally but that I knew what I was doing but had no idea it was offending you...

Her reply was that she was feeling like i was controlling her by bringing her the coat and all the other stuff...

I asked her "remember about 2 weeks ago when you told me that you thought I was one of the healthiest people emotionally that you have ever met?" She replied: "Yes, but i certainly don't feel that way now..."

To me that was a good sign. A sign that I wasn't all wacked out emotionally just 2 weeks ago in her eyes... Maybe that is a credit to me, maybe not...

I wanted to tell her more about how i felt about the whole thing but i kept remembering what Chinopants said: i really believe that she was doing both things at the same time, both "testing" me and just explaining how she felt.

when we finished talking it was kind of cool... no "don't call me ever again" or "leave me alone"... just the idea that she needs time to process what happened and see how she feels.

I have no idea if we will stay together or not but after the talk this morning I don't feel shitty that things won't work out somehow.

At this point, if she wants to stay together she is either a fool (haha!) or that she really feels that I am the guy for her. Like I said, things were pretty damn sweet before i freaked out... even i hate to admit that now but it's pretty obvious.

so, I guess my next move should be no, to very low contact? I mean, she was totally sick today and a part of me wants to text her "good night girl, i hope you feel better soon..." and the other part of me says "Dude, BACK THE FUCK OFF"...

I should probably listen to the guy who is yelling at me huh? haha!

I keep the posts going as new things pop up...

Yea thats a good idea but don't overdo it.

Problem is that women almost never EVER know what they want...so yeah,its impossible for you to know that.Your lack of contact might get off as letting her have the space she asked for or she might interpret it as "He changed so much , from very loving to very distant,clearly he doesnt want me anymore blablabla".

I always try to find a midground. I keep contact , but it's very casual. I try to make it 0 to no emotions involved. By leaving emotions out tension cools down and it sometimes can be very reasuring for her because you're also proving that you can have a conversation withour overwhelming her with attention.

Talk to her as you would talk with a simple friend.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.