Hey guys, so I have two sticking points. My first being the approach.. I'm 6 ft 6 and not bad looking but have massive confidence issues and can never work up to going up to a set or even a single girl in a club/bar. If she makes the first move and approaches me or a friend approaches and we start talking to the group that way then normally I can normally hold a good conversation and keep the target interested, its just the general approach by myself which I struggle at.
My second sticking point is the transaction between talking to a girl, getting IOI's, even kissing, to getting them to come home with me without sounding desperate or scaring them off. Any ideas?

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Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it. - Benjamin Franklin

Speak with a cool, relaxed and determined voice, look them into the eyes, as if it is not that big of a deal. "Say, Julie, would you like to accompany me later tonight and hang out at my place?"

Probably 5/6 chance that you'll be flaked (t' was just about your free drinks). But, given enough time and opportunity gets cast in your direction, it will eventually yield reward.

Thanks, ill give it a try next time i get the opportunity. Guess its just about practise and finding the right thing to say thats going to work whilst not sounding too needy at the same time

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Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it. - Benjamin Franklin

Yea, you can try the direct closing line and just ask them to come home with you, but don't be surprised when you get a lot of flakes and rejections. Because that's what every guy says, that's what every guy wants, and every girl knows that.

What you can do is invite them to a secondary location before trying to get them home. Maybe your buddy's appartment who is having some people over for an after-party. Or maybe to IHOP for a late night post-drinking grub fest. Or even another bar. This will make you seem like you have more going for you. Like you are out and about and doing shit. It also helps to build trust and creates a bond since she is basically following you to wherever you are going. This allows you to isolate her from a lot of the distractions that may be influencing her--her cock-blocking friends, other attractive guys, etc. It also eats up more time, which means she'll be more tired, more drunk, and more willing to go somewhere to crash or fuck.

You can also use your words to convey the opposite of what you actually want in order to give her a false sense of security and to telegraph a lack of agenda. Tell her that you DON'T want to go home and that you'd rather go to another spot to hang out and keep drinking or whatever. She'll follow you around thinking you are a guy looking to get into something fun (and not just looking to close ass). Once you get her in your car you can always tell her that your buddy texted you and bitched out and said he's going home and can't meet you at the next location after all. Then ask her if she just wants to go home and hang out at your place instead.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Cheers mate, this sounds like a good approach that i might give a try. Just act like you are a fun guy, not wanting what every other guy does, and wanting to carry on partying instead of going home with her. I can imagine this will throw her off her guard as she wouldnt expect it, and she would love it, and most likely initiate the 'lets go back home to fuck' herself later on. Or like you said, make up something cheeky like going to a different club to find a mate then saying he ditched you.. resulting in what seemed to her like your 2nd preference, of going home to shag. Thanks man

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Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it. - Benjamin Franklin

If you're worried about appearing desperate when inviting them to your place after, you probably have a mental frame of "this is it, we've been flirting/kissing/whatever all night and now is when she decides whether or not we bone tonight". Which is just such a stressful way to approach that situation, anybody would have extra anxiety to deal with in those moments. Honestly it's just all in the frame, at least in my experience. If you're in the frame that "we're friends who may or may not have feelings for each other, we're mostly just playful and trying to have fun", than suddenly it becomes much simpler to invite them to your place. "It's been a fun night. Are you coming with me to hang out? or are you in a hurry to get to bed". Is a favorite of mine, because suddenly their choice is between you, the fun-vibing sexy friend, or their lonely cold bed and sleep. (It also just sounds much better than "Should we go to my place"). And from there it's just you two having fun all the way into bed. or the couch. or wherever you guys end up doing it. Best of luck to ya!

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Every girl is different. But not TOO different.

In the end, It's not about girls.

Thanks man thats a good one, ill be sure to try that line next time im sound, sounds like it could be a good one. appreciate the help!

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Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it. - Benjamin Franklin

I'm going to be honest and blunt with you - She already knows whether or not she will go home with you prior to you dropping whatever line you drop.

If she wasn't attracted before, she won't be attracted after you ask her with a witty line. If she was attracted before, she won't care how you ask, just that you do.

There, now you don't need to worry about it.

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The hottest ginger you'll ever meet.

I don't have an ego, I just love how awesome I am.

Anyone got any top lines or rotuines to seperate a girl from a set? Obviously this is everyone main aim when sarging. I understand that i need to give her a good reason to leave her friends for some total randomer that she has just met, and i have a few techniques that work but want some amazing ones that work almost everytime, if such one exists. Obviously i am aware it all changes depending on each different situation, but as a uni student, the majority of my sets or at bars/ in clubs/ dance floors, all crowded with limited seating.

Zeus

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Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it. - Benjamin Franklin

This statement has reached the peak of Enlightenment for all PUA's. Because it is true and there is nothing to add to this.

And those would be?
I don't think there are techniques that "work almost every time".

Anyway, I once tried as soon as we went out of the bar "let's get a taxi and let's go back to my hotel", just simple as that, as if there were no other options.
It worked, but I think the situation should be taken into account: it was in a poor country -where taxi might have been expensive for her-, I had a nice hotel and she lived in shabby place where her parents had to go through her room to go to the kitchen and I said "don't worry, I have a double bed" as to make sure that in case she didn't want to do anything, it would have been a comfortable place where to crash in any case.


But I have one more question for you guys: you all seem to talking about your own cars. Don't you drink at least a beer when you go out? Isn't it forbidden to drive after having drunk where you're from?

you should also add at the end something like, "but don't expect anything, i don't have sex on the first date"
this shows you are not need her for sex, and just want to have fun, and if she will sleep with you it because you make her want to, not because you need it.

You shouldn't even mention sex. Not even in denial.

I think you've pretty much got this sorted already.

1) Don't ever mention sex. Make her feel less guilty, one thing lead to another... etc.
2) Have an alternative motive. What's she interested in? What could you do that would interest her? "e.g. I love guys who play guitars..." "Really? I guess you're in luck..."
3) Only suggest going to yours when it feels right, i.e. when you've built enough comfort. Yes, this may require bouncing.

And, good luck, I'll see you in your LMR thread in a few weeks

I think I have some valuable advice on this because I have full closed in a load of different game situations. Day, Night, Direct, Indirect, etc. Every time it was different at first. I would study material in how to game and close in the specific environment I was going into for a few hours to get it 'right'.

Why does this matter, because I close in a LOT of ways. Which I will go over. And I have a clear favorite.

1. Close method one, which I figured out after learning RSD's way: I am too great for you.

I enter party/club, and run a HUGE attraction set. I do it because I love to do it. I am an attraction junkie. I then get playful touching going. A game, a hug, high five, etc. I keep that up.

I throw in some hard and soft takeaway's and freeze outs. After your huge attract sequence is over, you do not go back. DO NOT. It becomes a touching game. I lead her around. Playfully touch. When I want it, I pull the trigger.

The key is to not kiss in the club, lead her to a place you can full close. Once I get to such a location, I then start kissing, or she to me (When you have that much attraction, it happens.) I then lead to sex. It happens. No line, no routine. Every so often I slow down and tell her we should not be doing this. It ramps her up.

A note is I have had girls walk off with takeaways with this approach. She get super frustrated. It works unbelievably better sober so you can calibrate to the girl.

2. Standard Game Close.

This is the mainstream way from MM. You run things safe. At every way point you push with a sarcastic and funny line to get past. Qualification is playful at first, kissing has a game, touching is just a cool thing you want to show her.

In this way, you ALWAYS have a reason to do something. If you game in a 'solid' way you need to make sure you gave a damn good reason to bounce her and extract.

Popular items are pictures, movies, instruments, video games, and dogs.

My Dog Bounce Routine:

"I have the coolest puppy at home."

HB: Really?

"Yeah, you would love her. She snuggles up on my chest when she sleeps to hear my heart beat. Reminds her of her mother."

HB: Aww.

"You should totally meet her. We could go pick her up and pick out those tiny coats people like to dress their dogs in and pose for pictures."


It works. I do variations of that routine, it is not something memorized but something that I use. I also stack it with the 'you remind me of my dog' routine by DD (I think) if she is not super into the idea to pump attraction and interest. You can do it, it works wonders.

It is a good idea to have a dog to do this, but honestly, not needed. Most of the time we get back to my place and she does not ask or look for the dog as long as you are escalating. If she does, "She must be sleeping" is the best response. She goes, "Awww" and is super into you again. I actually am a dog lover so I dont lie about this.

3. Sinn Qualification Close.

This is how I ALWAYS close now. I think this is the most solid, and fun outside of my RSD approach. The Sinn approach is far more solid.

Look up Sinn's under 21 Convention for this. Inspired by AFC Adam and Brad P I believe. Two guys I learned a LOT from.

I do it slightly differently that Sinn explains.

I break it down as:

Approach -> Social Comfort (Cold Read/Transition Routine/FTC) -> Attraction Set (Break Rapport, Routines, DHV, Cocky Funny, Teasing, Kino, Flirting, Neg, Takeaway, etc). -> Community Qualify (Hoop Theory) -> Movement/Isolation Qualification (Heavy Kino and movement) -> Rapport/Comfort (I run a version of Breakthrough Comfort I learned from Future and Sinn as well as some from Gambler's book and some by Style.) -> Second Attraction Set/Break Rapport (BR, C/F, Neg and Tease ONLY. Routines and DHV are not BR's and do not work) -> Second Qualification (Sexual Qualifiers, Sexual statements, sexual conversation, sexual touching) -> Sexual Kino/Leading (This is touching/Kissing in the non-friendly way. Lets her know whats going on. This includes Removing clothes and leading her to do sexual things) -> Standard Seduction (Sex Dummy).

This seems very rigid. But, this is EXACTLY what I was doing when I ran MM/Natural/RSD method in different phases of my growth individually. I because REALLY good at doing the method, broke it down, found themes. I broke down the routines/methodology they taught. I found that Sinn taught what I was doing when I was consistent. So, I push his stuff. I dont want to make money off of this (Would love to teach) so why reinvent the wheel?

The key to this close method is the sheer fact that girls seduce me. I get kissed first. That is something from the RSD method I LOVED when I was an aPUA. I had girls jumping all over me due to how tight my attraction was. I did not even know how to lead or escalate at first, I was just great at early game and girls would grind on me at social gatherings, maul me in clubs, and feel me up in the day.

Now, those girls flake, but with Sinn's method you qualify so much they dont flake. With my comfort sequence (The best part of my game) I connect with the girl, share emotions, run some Breakthrough comfort stuff such as sharing passions and purpose and I also do old school 'boyfriend' kino. Standard lip touching, eye lash removing, lint plucking. She gets SUPER comfy with you when you do the boyfriend actions and understand her better than anyone else has. I toss in some CR's to better connect to her reality so it is not just a spectator type of situation, I dont just understand her reality I make myself apart of it.

I just had a near full close where all I did was be social, control the group, do DHV stuff (No stories, but just vibing with the group), isolate target and friend, run some attract, slow down into qualify and kino, she pulled me into another room and kisses me, and I start seduction.

I like Sinn's method because MM doesnt work in field. Too static. RSD works GREAT in clubs and house parties, but day game was creepy for me. For Tyler, Jeffy, Geoff and the other instructors I KNOW it worked because they had better skills and calibration, not for an AFC.

Sinn's was what I did when I got good.





Long post for how to bounce a girl, right? NOPE. All methods, all top guys, all 'guru's' do something different. Different schools of thought. Heavy Kino, it just happens. Heavy verbals, you need a simple excuse. That is the essential of it. A line WILL NOT work. She feels it or does not. That is why knowing how you ran the set matters. It is not what JUST happened in set (I.e. how you feel) it is about when you walked in the venue, your words to everyone, your body language with every person in the venue, plus every step in the set from approach, to qualify, to disqualify to close. If you dont know where you are in relation to the entire venue you dont know when it is okay to close or extract.

In summary (For those who dont like posts of win):

1. Know where you are at.
2. Lines dont work.
3. Run the set properly.
4. Have a routine or excuse to bounce.
5. When in doubt, pull the trigger.

A side tangent about talking about sex:

I ALWAYS BRING IT UP WHEN I RUN PURE VERBALS. As in lounge/bar where I cant isolate or dance with her. I sexually qualify.

My FAVORITE opener is Geoff's Apocolypse, but I do it differently. When I want to get laid, real bad, I ask her to come to the bathroom with me. One out of 20 say yes. Great odds I would say for a bathroom pull.

When a girl 'catches me' I spin it around.

"Darn straight, I dont put out on the first date."
"Mind out of the gutter little missy."
"Sex? Is that what my parents do when they send me to bed early?"
"I dont want to have sex with you. I want to go back to your place and steal your TV. "


Or my non-funny serious game one is (I use this on girls I 'actually care about'. Those are girls I vibe with, enjoy personality, want a relationship and also fund stunning):

"You think all I want is sex? You know what, I could have gone up to any girl in here tonight and had sex. No one in this room has had as much fun as we did together and that is why I am talking to you. If you take me as one of those creepy club guys, I am out."

I back turn her as if I am going to walk away, and I often get a "NOOO" or a arm grab to stay. A time or two I had her spin me around and make out with me.






Final thought:

SHE IS SHIT TESTING YOU. Yes, this token resistance is a shit test. "I am not having sex" is a test. My other solutions are C/F or deep to ramp up attraction and bridge a gap in progression. But any test destroyer (Ignore, Blow up the idea to be outrageous, or rattle off something completely off topic) works just as well to get you the lay.

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Field Reports (I also link my best posts within this FR and personal Routines)

Frame Stacking for Attraction