I'm still pretty much a AFC but I'm starting to think that online sarging is a pitfall for newbies such as myself. Even veterans seems to have trouble with it? Anyway it's really easy to hide behind a computer and not risk putting yourself out there IRL.

I read a lot of the stuff here and it's been helpful. I've managed to get a decent number of replies and one phone number with a HB 8 but I doubt that it'll pan out. The amount of effort that I've put into this is just not worth it. Being completely honest with myself I'm using this as a cop out and not a supplement to sarging.

I'm not saying that online sarging is without merit but it seems like too many of us struggle with it. I'm just wondering if anyone else feels that way?

95% of normal looking guys fail online because they do it wrong. I failed online and gave up like most people, then years later educated myself and have had a very good amount of success with minimal effort online. Of course thats only half the issue, you are going to need real life game to go from date to close with online chicks as well. But its only a "trap" because of your lacking skill set.

And I mainly use online as a supplement to the rest of my game, its best to have multiple income streams as possible

That makes sense. I guess that in the meantime I need to work on my IRL game.

The advantage of online is you get to skip the high value approach and half the initial attraction buildup, so when you do meet up you are halfway to the lay, but ya you still need some dhv and rapport builsing to escalation to close.

The disadvantage of online is that it requires its own skill set, takes time, and you have some quality control issues.

Overall you should be working on all aspects of your game, including online, but online gave me a shitton of dating experience which really helped my overall game.

How many times did you get shot down or ignored online before you figured out what you were doing wrong? I figure that it's a lot for most guys but each failure is pretty discouraging. I'm working on looking at each mistake as a lesson.

Thing about online is that it is always running. You just set the trap and see what gets caught. The hardest part is making a profile then your done. Send out vauge mass messages and see who is hungry. That's it. It takes little effort. You just got to be funny and fun. Most of my game is from Okcupid. Its just a tool like a bar or club or coffee house.

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Why guys and girls don't mesh.

"Chicks are crazy and guys are dumb." Chinopants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... a_Nno&NR=1

I dont use Chinopants shotgun and see what sticks method at all, but that doesn't mean it cant work or it is wrong. I also dont like mass mailings because it can clear the pool too fast, like a brown out.

But you have two ways of attracting chicks online. Have the profile do the all the work and just dont fuck up. Or email your target first (in which case you still want a great profile). And since having a good profile is the set piece, and thus the easiest part of online game, there is no excuse for having a shitty profile. Ill give you the best cheat: Look at guys profiles (no homo) in New York and LA(PUA competitive advanced locations) and steal shit from guys who clearly have great game and profiles. Then personalize their shit and make it your own.

As far as emailing goes I have a somewhat set routine of where I take the conversation, but I'm one of those guys that actually reads girls profiles, looks for compatibilities, and tries to read between the lines. I do this to better my chances and avoid funky logistics later on. My general average is to email 10 girls to get 3 responses to get 1-2 dates where the frame is set such that I can F-close 60% of the time. Some guys have better stats then that, most have worse.

If a girl emails me first, that usually means I will trade only 2 emails instead of three (I dont bother with one on building initial attraction) and my chance of F-closing goes up to 75%. I also never bother with phone game before I've actually met the chick, text is sufficient despite common myths.

Finally as far as your learning curve goes, dont reinvent the wheel, there are a shit load of free online dating books that are at least decent. I also read Net-2-Bed which really helped me write a profile and David M's stuff which is generally pretty good but I dont use his spam mailings. If you are exceptionally good looking, which I'm guessing you arnt, then spam mailing will be very effective in eliciting responses.

Let me know if you have any specific questions