I'm not exactly sure what the dynamic is between natural game and canned material, logistics, following the steps lined out here and in Mystery Method, etc.

I've been told by tons of people that I have great game and am really good with talking to women, however, that's usually when I'm not trying to score with one. When I'm consciously trying to... not so much. I'm trying to figure out how to fit natural game into these steps and routines and methods on escalation. When I try to think about escalation and running game, it feels stiff and unnatural, however, when I just run my natural game, I notice interest in tons of girls, but there's seems to be an invisible wall between natural game and routines and escalation. Does any of this even make sense?

See the thing is man both types of game are solid so you should effectively study both and combine them each have their own perks..

With Canned Routines
* You can create sparks that weren't there in natural conversation and this can effectively enhance her attraction for you.
* It can help get you out of rutty situations for example..
you can't think of a good opener *BOOM* (insert canned bs here) problem solved.
you run out of stuff to say *BOOM* (insert witty routine here) problem solved.
she stops texting you *BOOM* (insert text routine here) problem solved.

but the thing you need to realise is pickup is and always will be an ART not a SCIENCE...

Enter Natural Game
* you don't come off as creepy or robotic
* everything flows better
* you can easily transition into normal conversation

but what is natural game? well it is basically creating your own routines that suit your personality and improving yourself to a level you feel happy and confident with at least from my experience anyway

Let's put it this way.

I personally believe that this natural-game shit is way overrated.

I'm an indirect gamer and I'm an advocate of canned routines.

But this' the skinny on it.

Every newbie just starting out should use canned material without a doubt.

Canned routines are training wheels.

As the newbie progresses,he should become so skilled that he's able to compose his own openers and routines.

I started with all canned routines of course("Girls fighting outside" routine,etc.),but as I advanced and became a coach,I'm able to compose my own routines or just go situational openers.

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There's an mPUA here who mixes natural game with routines. To begin with its about being 80% routines and 20% natural until you eventually shift to 20% routines and 80% natural

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Perfect way to put it Sarin.

I couldn't have said it better.

Newbies MUST use canned routines since they're uncalibrated and unable to naturally flow.

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Then again, you have the true naturals, those who never had to learn any game and always just "hit it off" with women!

I actually talked with a friend of mine yesterday who is one of the best naturals I know, he never read or saw anything game related, so I steered the conversation in to women in general, and then game.

What he did basically, was using body language. He told me that he seldom had the guts to actually approach a woman he's never met before (which really suprised me). And to quote him "So I just talk to them with my body language and have them approach me!". That being said, he is relativley good looking, and has a bulletproof self-esteem to go along with it, so that helps ofcourse.

My point is - If you build up a rock solid inner game you won't need too many canned lines. It would seem that you allready have a pretty good inner game and that you have a good natural game. My guess is that you somehow feel uncomfortable using pre-made routines, and that the women you talk to notices it. You might wanna read up a bit on bodylanguage so that you can be aware of what you do different from natural game to routines.

Great replies, guys. They all actually really helped clear some of the problems I had up.

Words are a huge thing for me and I can tell pretty easily when something doesn't sound right, and so often some of the canned stuff just sounds robotic and insincere. I've put my own spin on it, of course. It could be that I'm just aware that they're routines and it immediately throws me off. I don't know why it should bother me so much. I'm a writer and am making a career out of storytelling using truth and lies both. You'd think it would be easier.

It's possible that a lot of my problem with routines comes from AA. It's amazing how much confidence I have in myself yet how easy it is to lose your balls when you see a pretty woman. Thinking off the cuff is rough to do and canned stuff seems to always come across as stupid. I think I will read up on body language though... that was a good idea, Dice.

I can see the value in the canned stuff... I just wasn't sure if routines were at odds with natural game or not. Thanks for helping me clear it up guys.

body-language-the-key-to-natural-game-vt71495.html

This is an awesome thread that explains most of what you need when it comes to body language!

thanks dude. I've already read through several of these posts... great thread and 'preciate you pointing it out

I stumbled upon this thread as I was wondering the exact same thing with Indomitus. For me i'm done with canned material unless the conversation brings it out by itself.

Knowing they're canned they all sound robotic and unnatural... And recently they made me lose a very pretty girl with whom i had really great game and great chemistry. There was bantering but i can't really remember if there were teasers and dhvs and other stuff... And it was going great until my pua infested mind told me "you need to do this you need to do that". Wrong calibration... Ruined my chances with an HB9 who i was so into because of the conversational bantering.

So i'm done with routines and stuff as things like "what's the most exciting thing you've ever done?.... If you could live to any place in the world what would the be and why?"

any average intelligence girl will tell you "where do you come up with these questions?" (calling you on your genuinity) And to be fair it sounds like teenager stuff

The ONLY way i use canned material is if something i read actually made me laugh. Then you know you genuinely liked it and you didn't just force it into your game.

I'm working on my conversational skills now and keeping the pua principles. No canned material for me. If you have any products to suggest about inner game or being natural, "not running out of things to say" techniques, i'm all ears

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I went out last weekend with my wing who only uses natural game. He walks right up to the girl and smiles, then looks them directly in their eyes and tells them that he noticed they have very unique look about them. This dude will open anybody. He doesn't get blown out either because he's so non-threatening and complimentary that the girls just stay there and continue talking to him.

It's very interesting because you can be natural, yet use the same routine over and over. Walking up to a girl and talking about her "look" is a specific routine, yet it doesn't come across as scripted because the dialogue varies from set to set. It's so funny to watch the girl's body language as you make comments about her appearance. You talk about her hair and her eyes go up like she's trying to look at her bangs. You talk about her boots and she looks down at her feet and clicks her toes together. You talk about her clothes and she adjusts her shirt and feels her sleeves with her hands. It's awesome.

Most girls want guys to notice how they look and how they dress. When you start talking with them about it it draws them into a comfort zone. When you use canned routines it draws them away from their comfort zone into the land of random questions. Unless you have a solid canned routine, you'll often lose them that way.

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I feel like the longer you do it the more you transition to natural. Like someone else said some things you might say are "routines" but you get so used to it that your being natural about it. You start to get more confident and go with the flow. Eventually after reading tons and tons of canned material you have some much at your disposal that everything mixes and matches and you gain... confidence. For me personally I still can't walk up to a random girl and start talking, however if I were introduced I can talk for hours. I like to start with a "canned" opener and go natural from there.

i also think at the beginning the best think is to use routines, most of all so you learn to intepritate the IOI's you recieve from the girls, and also to find out that talking to beautiful women isnt as hard as everybody makes it out to be, and that it is also very easy to get there numbers as long as you dont "choke" and stumble and such things

so i prefer natural game, because its easier than remembering all those different opening, routines, methods and much more... when its natural everything happens natural and is generally easier for you

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I like these responses a lot. I especially like the theory you may start out at 80% routine and get good enough you are 80% natural.

A couple of things I will add is that women who get hit on a lot have heard routines. Most likely, if you have canned stuff from a book, it's something they've heard or there's a variation of it they have heard before. Or if not, they may be able to detect it's an act. Some of these women get hit on several times a day. If they know it's an act, they may be nice to you at first b/c they know you don't have much experience with women and they don't want to hurt your feelings, but your probability of using it as you get older to succeed goes down as does your probability of using it to get laid starting out.

One of the best pieces of advice I can give which kind of expands on your original theory is that, you have to learn to be a conversationalist. If I take my dog to the park and see some fat ugly woman with her dog there, I'm gonna go talk dogs and shit like that. let the dogs play a bit. All you are having there is a natural conversation. That's really all you need when talking to a girl you like.

Basically natural conversation, getting talking about movies and tv shows and shit like that with her will work better for a new guy if he has no acting ability.

The guys who advocate routines are all "lame chodes talk about the weather man", yeah just like every guy she ever had sex with before you did lol.

Routines are just extra spice/attention/entertainment/interesting topics IF the guy can pull them off without sounding robotic, which half the dating coaches teaching them even do. So buyer beware on that.

My point is one MUST use natural "game" in order to even deliver a routine in the first place without it sounding weird, so there is no distinction. However a guy can learn verbals to just keep conversation flowing as he runs other covert game on her without learning routine structure.

And no one should ever memorize routines in my book, the risk of bad delivery is too great. Get the basis of what the routine is and deliver it.

"I want to know who people think lies more men or women, this will be interesting to see" as a question to self that you then pretend to ask the women.

Vs

"hey guys my friend and I were talking and I was wondering who do you think lies more men or women?" as a static line.

That will help with not seeming robotic or canned. The THEME vs the exact words is the key, then work the techniques in. You can't just study this shit, you have to actually sit and think about and analyze it to work it properly. The "get in the field no matter what" mindset is fine, until the guy runs his 200th failed laughed at "who lies more" because he sounds like a robot. He won't go back in field again.

Again you have to realistically evaluate your own acting ability to work routines to make them seem natural.

"Emergency afc escape, must get in field" mode though? Whats the whole point? "Leave the house and Get in field talking to girls" is the point. So why do they have to run a structured routine that they'll botch anyway because they aren't relaxed?

THAT'S where natural game comes in as superior in getting guys out "just talking to girls" first and foremost without thinking if they misspeak one single line they'll be doomed, and for that dooming themselves to sounding like a robot!


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