My other posts haven't gotten much attention, but I'd appreciate any feedback or advice from other PUAs. From somebody with experience of my problem here to a rookie struggling.

I spent my young life dealing with my parents neuroses, I've inherited all kinds of crap from them. They openly regret having kids. Neither of them have any drive or ambition and they pretty much ignored us when we were kids. They never taught me anything or gave me any advice. I wasn't a street kid so I didn't grow up tough. I was just an average kid who basically had to develop his own personality.

I haven't enjoyed life at all. Growing up was a nightmare because I didn't have any confidence. I had no example on how to be confident and the sad fact of the world is, if you're weak it'll chew you up and spit you out. I was very weak, and the more I got chewed up, the weaker I became. I got rejected so much that it became a pathological fear. I'd avoid things that I knew I could get rejected from because I was so sick of feeling like I wasn't good enough.

When I was about 13, I shot up from about 5'7 to 6'3 in a few months which made things even worse. Before I was an ugly fucker who could slip through crowds unnoticed, but now I'm really big and I get noticed everywhere. So my confidence and my shoulders sank lower.

When I was 14-16 I'd go to gigs maybe 3-4 times a week. I still love rock and metal music, but I haven't been to a gig in about 4 years.

For the past 4 years I've been a shut in. I have no friends, no life experiences. I've missed countless opportunities and lost years off my life. I loved to just get on the internet and lose myself in something. Start reading about a subject, learn everything about it and forget about it two days later.

Women to me have always been a symbol about how worthless I am. They represent everything that's wrong with me. They represent pain and resentment. A woman isn't really a person, she's just there to show me how little I'm worth.

One of my best friends died late last year which made me depressed and I was in a horrible car crash earlier this year. When I was in physio I had an epiphany. Life is so short, so fragile and so precious. The reason I'm shying away from women and life is because that's what I know best.

I've spent my life reading self-help books and watching motivational speakers and getting tips on how to be more attractive and I just decided to go out and gun it. I've always been terrified of confrontation and social situations, so the first thing I did was get my SIA card and started working as a bouncer for my cousin's company.

I deal with thousands of people a week and lots of confrontation. The only way around a problem is through. I don't back down and I want to change. I want to be more confident. I'm hanging in there and I have changed a lot. I've had my face smashed in, I wear a stab vest and it does have marks and holes in the surface layer where people have tried to kill me. I have no problem walking up to a bunch of loud lads and saying "Alright, Lads. Manager doesn't want you here any more, finished your pints and leave." I would have fainted half way through that sentence early this year.

I still have no luck with women. Still never had a girlfriend and still only had sex twice in my life to a girl who used me for festival tickets. I still don't feel worthy of women and think how lame I am when I try to talk to them.

At 23 you'd think I'd be a decent kisser and semi-decent in bed, but I get nervous because if I do get where I want to be, then I'll just kiss her badly and give her a really crappy night in bed.

Since July you wouldn't recognize me. Which has had another negative affect. Before I didn't have the balls to do what needed to be done to change. Now I have a different perspective and understand life better, I've realized that my whole life so far has been an absolute waste.

I feel like I've missed out on growing up. I feel like I've had to start my life as an adult when really I should have started years ago. I've missed being a teenager and I've missed being 21. I was never invited to any parties, got my first kiss at 15 from a 24 year old.

I actually get anxious and depressed looking at teenagers. They're all out now, doing things I never did. I look back at school, walking past two people making out, and think about how I'm here and what I missed.

There's shows on TV called "The Joy of Teen Sex" and "Sun, Sex and Suspicious Parents". I didn't lose my virginity until I was 20. I never had any teen sex and for some reason, watching teenagers do all this stuff makes me anxious.

When I was younger, to me that was just out of the question. No girls will ever want anything to do with me and that's how it is. Now I realize it was all mind set, I wish I could go back and tell myself what I need to do.

I feel inexperienced compared to people much younger than me and my own age and it makes me feel anxious. I see a 17 year old who's more successful than me and it makes me feel anxious.

My kid cousin is 15 and in his short life, he's had more success with women and life in general than my 23 years. Usually I can tell when people are lying, it's a weird gift I have to read body language, and I don't think he's lying and I drive past him all the time and see him with girls.

Makes me feel like shit. Ages 16-23 are just blank. No experiences, no life. Aren't they supposed to be the best years of your life? I've barely been kissed in my life, yet I remember being 12 and seeing people my age making out. That's right, people 10 years younger than me are making out more in a month than I have in my entire life. I feel like I missed out on the whole thing and it's killing me inside.

When I was a teenager, I wanted nothing more than to not be a teenager. The older I get, the more I get obsessed with teenage culture. The more I feel and want to be a teenager. I was a teenager who wanted to be an adult. Now I'm an adult who wants to be a teenager again.

I feel like I'm on the run down to becoming a boring old man without having experienced the fun part where you don't have to worry about things.

.jddj

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Your problem is with women. Same thing with 99% of the people on this forum.

Though you need to stop the self-loathing completely. This is one of the best things I learnt. Their is just no point in it, it achieves nothing.

You are in the right place. Do what you do best and do the research. Browse the forums and you will see stories similar to yours.

I've been doing Capoeira and dancing classes for the past few months and I've been doing demonic confidence, but because I work and go to college as well so I keep screwing up and having to go back to the beginning with DC. I would try with girls at dancing and capoeira, but they've paid good money to go to classes to learn something and not to put up with me for trying to pick them up. I've been out for drinks with one of them and almost got somewhere but my closing was terrible and it ended on a pretty awkward note so I've stopped that.

Teenagers are still driving me crazy. Before I start this, the legal age in the UK is 16, not 18.

It drives me crazy because at the time my confidence was so low and I was so awkward that I never thought I'd be able to do the things I'm doing now. When I was wasting my youth, I thought it was going to be wasted anyway, but now I realize that it didn't have to be it drives me fucking nuts. The fact that I wasted it drives me damn crazy! I lose sleep over it, the best years of my life are gone and I didn't live a single one of them! It's giving me a headache right now just thinking about it!

There's this group of 16-17 year old student girls on the same bus as me on a morning, one of them is so incredibly hot that it drives me crazy. I never got the younger girls out of my system because my social anxiety and ugliness got in the way of me getting any girls. It drives me crazy because I want to pick her up, but I know now that I'm too old for her. They're always talking about sex on the bus and it drives me even crazier!

Question for people who lost their virginity at 20+:

With all the hype these days about teen sex and stuff like that, does it drive you nuts knowing that people so much younger than you are doing stuff you wanted to but didn't get to when you're an adult?

Does it make you feel like you missed out on so much? How do you deal with it?

I'm trying so, so, so hard to move on and put it in the past, but all it takes is a younger hot girl to walk in my path to trigger this intense anxiety that can cause me physical pain internally!

Another thing I hate is being less experienced than other people.

People my age have a good stock of stories, experiences and I'm only just getting started. I have to hear their stories without having any of my own.

SUCKS!

I can sort of see where you're coming from on this. I didn't have much success with girls until I was around 20 and at uni when I started to let my hair down a bit so to speak, and ended up getting a lot more success. I understand your issues - if you think most people your age (and younger even) have had more sex than you, then you're going to be unimpressive in bed and/or just completely clueless with women in general and they'll go for someone with more experience.

Well firstly - so what? Just go out with the intention of "using" girls as practice. (NB: When I say "using", I'm against using a girl in a bad way, but what I mean here is not to lead her on or do anything like that, but just simply to not worry about anything long term or whatever.) So what if you try and chat to a random girl and she thinks you're too inexperienced/lacking in skills and walks off? Are you ever going to see her again? Is she going to ruin your life? Nope. She's insignificant in the grand scheme of things. And if you do happen to find a girl who is really into you, then most girls aren't dickheads. If she actually likes you, she will help you through your inexperience more than likely. OR if she doesn't, then again, so what? Plenty more girls out there and at least you'll have something else to learn from.

I also think you'll be surprised at how easy the more intimate stuff is. Don't fret being a bad kisser or bad in bed - a lot of it comes naturally and with maybe only a little bit of reading of tips on the internet, you can be more than adequate in those areas. A lot of people build it up to be something that is really hard and/or special or something that takes a lot of skill; it doesn't. A lot of it is just about confidence.

Now I'm not going to say "just be more confident" because that might be easy enough for people who are already quite confident. But if you've got a big stumbling block holding you back, then it's not always that easy to get over it. Firstly, I'd advise you to look at the "Building an Attractive Lifestyle" forum - get your own life in shape first. Don't worry about girls. To me, it sounds like you need to get to a place where you're proud of yourself before you can go any further.

Now in order to get to that place, you need to stop comparing yourself to other people. What do you want to do that will make you feel good about yourself? What job do you do? Can you aim to meet a target at work that will make you feel good? Maybe a first target can be to join a meet up website or something similar and go out with a group of people to socialise. That can be a massive step, and if you've been quite an isolated person then it can be very hard to do - but just doing it can be a massive step to getting somewhere better.

Now, I'll address two more points here. Firstly, your problem with younger people being more experienced than you. Secondly, your seeming regret about not having had those "life experiences" and "fun".

For the former - don't believe a lot of it. Now at 23, yes, there will be plenty of people who have more experience than you. Point one would be that even those with more experience aren't necessarily confident. People who sleep with loads of people can have crippling insecurities, in fact a lot of the more confident people often only come across as more confident because it's a front to cover their insecurities. So yeah they might get women, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily happy (I'm talking about the general public here, not necessarily posters on this website). Point two would be that a lot of them don't get as many women as they like to say anyway. Plenty of lads lie about "their number" to make them look better, but in reality they are miles away from the truth. A lot of people might look good with girls, they might be able to talk with them, they might flirt outrageously with them, but a lot of them can never seal the deal for whatever reason either. So your cousin always has girls around him; doesn't necessarily mean he's any good with them.

Of course he could be good with them. But then, so what? I have not got time for jealousy. Why do I want to be jealous of someone else (whether that's because they've had more success at something than I have when they're still younger, or because they're stinking rich and I'm not or whatever), when I could be enjoying myself and/or working towards that same success. If it's something that I feel is realistically attainable and it is something that I really want, then I'll go and get it - even if that means months or years of hard work. If it's something that I couldn't care less about, I don't care. If it's something I am never going to be able to do (become a professional footballer), then I don't waste time or energy on it. Instead, I focus on that first group of things that I DO want and that are attainable with a bit of hard work, and go and get them instead. So I might lack the natural talent to become a professional football player, but I do still love playing the game and have a massive laugh with mates because of it, so I focus on being the best amateur Sunday league footballer I can be and enjoy it thoroughly. What's the point in beating myself up about not being professional, or comparing myself to David Beckham, when I can actually be out there doing something slightly different, enjoying myself and having fun? Again here, you need to stop comparing yourselves to others - so a younger guy has more sexual experience than you; so what? Don't be jealous, use it as motivation. Being good with women is something that any man CAN attain and it's something that most straight men do want to achieve. So go out there and do it - practice on girls and if you suck, so what? I sucked at maths before I went to school. I still say 'stupid' things at university now because I'm in a new course. But the more I did maths at school, the better I got. The longer I spend at my course at uni, the less stupid things I've said. The more practice I've done on my piano, the better I've gotten and the quicker I am to learn new things on that nowadays. Most men (myself included) were woeful with women at some point. But they've worked on it, put it into practice - probably had a bit of 'embarrassment' and ego bruising on the way - but have got or are getting to a better position.

The second point about life experiences I'll try to keep quick and shorter than the above! Life experiences are a moot point really. I know people who have spent 4 years at uni in a different city, gone out partying five days a week, had a year out to do things like volunteering in Africa or Asia or just doing a world tour or whatever. But they come home and they're still terrible with women, and are still ever so boring to talk to. I know other people who got a pretty rubbish job straight out of school at 16, only go out clubbing once a month or less, and maybe don't have much of a social life other than go to the pub with their mates once a week, but these people are funny, good story tellers, and great with women. It's all relative. You make of life what you want to make of it. A lot of being able to tell stories is more about being aware of potential stories and being able to tell them well, rather than the events themselves. What use is riding an elephant in Kenya if you're boring as sin or you just don't think other people will be interested in hearing about it? Whereas if you can make a simple trip to the corner shop funny, and actually think of it to tell people about it, then that's going to be just as amusing to be honest.

7000, not only is that one of the best things I've ever read, I feel really motivated and calm.

Thanks man.

I don't really know how to respond to such a big, useful post so if my lack of words seems like I'm indifferent, I promise you I'm not!

Thank you.

Dont worry about "young people having more experience"...most people talk bollocks and exaggerate. If your on the bus with 16/17 year olds talking about sex, youve probably heard some guy claiming to have banged 294 girls in one night...it didnt happen.

So doubt worry about that shit, sounds like your abit hung up on missing this, missing that, as already said, self loathing isnt going to acheive anything, be productive with your time, what have you achieved today? What are you going to achieve tommorrow? etc.
If your not working/studying for college/working on your game( studying it)/working on your game(infield)/working on self improvement in other ways (gym) ....you should be doing one of these things always if you really are in a rut, and trying to get yourself out of it. dont be sitting in front of the TV watching shitty programs, being passive not learning or improving yourself.

You want to improve? Get out there, step by step. Hell, approach that hot 17 year old on the bus. Get blown out, and know that you had the balls to approach, knowing your chances were pretty damn slim, but you gave it a shot anyway to improve YOU.

It's not so much self-loathing, it's more of a feeling of emptiness and anxiety. like a certain part of my life wasn't lived and experienced. I should feel like "been there, done that" but I haven't yet. I haven't experienced much. I feel now that I'm 23 that my life isn't supposed to be in the stage where I'm just getting myself out there with women.

It's exciting when you're younger because it's kinda new and it's frouned upon, kinda. It's crazy and fun whereas at my age, it's just standard and I feel that at my age I've missed out on relationships and sex being new and exciting and now I'm just playing catch up. The women I meet usually have more dating and sexual prowess, yet I have none at all.

This isn't self-loathing. I haven't insulted or put myself down. I'm just saying how I feel.

I'm a positive person and I'm trying to improve, but this is something that I can't seem to get any control over. This is sticking with me and I can't shake it out of my head. It gets triggered whenever I see anything like teenagers making out. Young couples. Hear younger people than me talk about it.

It can get triggered whenever I see TV shows about teen sex education and stuff like that. God knows there's a lot of it.

This kind of reminds me of my situation some years back.
I was made shy by my controlling parents. In fact, I was so shy that I had no real friends until University. I haven't kissed a girl until I was 19.

Here is the thing. I snapped out of it after I reached my ultimate low and I consider myself lucky that happened. I figured out what life is... that it's a game to be played. Most people don't get this and their life sort of extinguish as soon as they get a job.

Sometimes I do wonder what would have happened if I were more extroverted, but stressing about it does 0 good UNLESS it makes you snap out of it finally. I 'realized' what was happening so many times and so many times did I go "Okay, this is the time to do something stupid and loosen up!" and then I did not do it...
I woke up at around 20 and you know what made me snap out of it finally? I imagined myself as a 50 year old man saying to myself "Okay, this is the time to do something stupid and loosen up!" and then not doing it again...
Then in the next 5 years I fucked more women then 90% of the guys I know, got loads of friends, did loads of things... I basically did in 1 year what I did in previous 20 and I'll continue doing it until I'm dead.

I'll tell you a story that might be motivating. My stepfather married at 20 yo and had 2 kids. You can imagine what a great way that has been to spend your youth. Being faithful to one and only women in his life and being shackled by his work, kids and his general flat line of a life that he had. Until he was 30 at least. He then proceeded to divorce her and fuck approximately 1500 women by his 50s when he met my mother. He traveled the world, he worked a dozen of different creative jobs, founded several businesses, did everything he wanted... and he started at 30.

These are some of my favorite quotes, read them a hundred of times until you understand them: Fuck, these quotes are brutal. Must frame them and put them on my wall.

Worrying about what you missed will only make you miss even more. Do you want to wake up at 50 some day and wonder why you had a lame life?
ANYTHING is better then doing nothing. You've just been born, there is no past. Happy Birthday! Your life starts now. Go live it and get those experiences.