So this has been a consistent problem for me and its very frustrating. I'm blessed to naturally be able to pick up/open women fairly easily, but I have a terrible mid game /escalation which i've steadily been improving, and I have an huge issue with getting the kiss/f-close.

Now My sticking point is that it's actually very often that I will get invited up to their place on the first or 2nd date, and i'll have established kino and we'll be touching comfortable, holding hands or whatnot, but i keep having trouble building that vibe to getting the kiss > F close (in my experience almost all the occasions where actually I mangag the kiss it directly leads to F close). Very often the vibe will build up right sometime a little before we go up stairs. I've taken action /made moves but I get soft rejected (its like she's not ready or something), but she'l still keep holding hands with me, let me touch her legs and shoulders and back.

Just yesterday i went on a second date with a girl, we went to a drive through theatre and we were holding hands and i could feel her pulse getting hot and heavy, and so we went back to her place, but for some reason after we got on the sofa the feeling kinda just dissappated. I tried to get it back, get close to her to get the kiss. nothin =(
but she'll let me touch her hair, feel her ear, her legs, give her a massage....but still no kiss.

Goddammit this is frustrating. Anyone have any tips on how i can get across this sticking point? Is it a timing thing? logistics? should i do some routines? how can I practice to get this right??? it feels like it just keeps slipping away every time =(

You're not doing kino escalation correctly. Holding hands? What, did you just get back from a sock hop in the 1950s? WTF is holding hands gonna' do?!?

It sounds like you are getting to the finishline, then just trying to coast in. This is the point where you need to really ramp things up and go for a strong finish. Stare into her eyes, DHV yourself, and kino her with confidence.

Somewhere along the lines you are not completing the comfort/rapport/attraction coefficient. She's comfortable enough to let you touch her, but she doesn't feel the attraction yet. More than likely you haven't done enough of the right things and you are coming across as slightly needy and having an agenda, which is to fuck her. Just tweek some of those things a bit and your results should improve.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

I have the same comment as puaninja. I missed the eye contact in your description. Use strong eye contact during a conversation (or silent breaks), glance occasionally at her lips and get closer... (search web for triangular gazing)

You can also build eye contact, take her arms and place them around your neck so that your faces get closer together.

Don't break the eye contact first and if you have to, don't look down. If you are comfortable with long eye contact you are displaying confidence and you get more attractive to girls.

- If she keeps the eye contact you are doing fine and it is an invitation to get closer. Go for it. If she is looking at your lips she is already waiting for your kiss.
- If she breaks the eye contact and looks down, you are also doing fine because she is attracted by your confidence and dominance.
- If she breaks the eye contact by looking up, its a bad sign.
- If she breaks the eye contact by looking to the site you will get your current result. Its a neutral sign. Keep making her to break the eye contact first (at least she should to it more often than you do) and see if she starts to keep eye contact for a longer time.

Let us know if this helped you. I would like to know if this was your problem.

Fucking brilliant about the last part, can I ask why looking up is bad, I remember reading this once but forgot, and what do you mean looking to the side will get your current result...

Good stuff though!

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-Raphael

Aspiring Artist

Read the adventures I take as I discover my way towards becoming a mPUA or a dPUA (decent PUA) including completing the StyleChallenge ---> raphaels-journel-vt119594.html

[quote="bruceleestatus"]So this has been a consistent problem for me and its very frustrating. I'm blessed to naturally be able to pick up/open women fairly easily, but I have a terrible mid game /escalation which i've steadily been improving, and I have an huge issue with getting the kiss/f-close.

Now My sticking point is that it's actually very often that I will get invited up to their place on the first or 2nd date, and i'll have established kino and we'll be touching comfortable, holding hands or whatnot, but i keep having trouble building that vibe to getting the kiss > F close (in my experience almost all the occasions where actually I mangag the kiss it directly leads to F close). Very often the vibe will build up right sometime a little before we go up stairs. I've taken action /made moves but I get soft rejected (its like she's not ready or something), but she'l still keep holding hands with me, let me touch her legs and shoulders and back.

Just yesterday i went on a second date with a girl, we went to a drive through theatre and we were holding hands and i could feel her pulse getting hot and heavy, and so we went back to her place, but for some reason after we got on the sofa the feeling kinda just dissappated. I tried to get it back, get close to her to get the kiss. nothin =(
but she'll let me touch her hair, feel her ear, her legs, give her a massage....but still no kiss.

Goddammit this is frustrating. Anyone have any tips on how i can get across this sticking point? Is it a timing thing? logistics? should i do some routines? how can I practice to get this right??? it feels like it just keeps slipping away every time =(

[quote="Morellas"]Aarg man.. I have the EXACT same problem, everytime when iam suppose to close kiss its like i dont have the 'spark'/escalation,iam also tending to plan it, like maybe when we part ways after having a walk, but I read somewhere on some of these pua books that it should be spontaneous.

Well, seing Bruce's post gave me a thrill as Lyrthas and puaninja gave some very good advise there and from here is back to practise.I totally agree with you ninja when you say we are missing something btwn rapport,comfort etc..because thats what i always feel-something missing... Thanx men.

I think you are trying too hard. I think you are sitting there with her and it's all over your face: "What should I do next to seduce this girl?" And every time you try to make the right move, she knows that you're just trying to make the right move so you can get laid, so her defenses go up. It's not even LMR at that point either. Because like we agreed, you're stuck back on the rapport/attraction phase.

I think you need to break rapport with her. Show a lack of interest in her momentarily. That'll throw her off and your game won't be so obviously telegraphed. This is the difficult part of game where you need to be willing to lose the girl to get the girl. Putting a little distance between you too, being a bit of dick, and freezing her out will show that you have confidence and that you don't give a shit if she likes you or not. That's the push you've been missing since you've only been pulling. That's yanking the string away from the cat.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

I used to have this problem too, I realised that the main issue was building everything up! Both you and the girl know what 'should' happen - she has invited you to her place which only means one thing. She wants you to lead but you need to make it NOT look like a big deal.

Hence I learnt the sooner you do each step the better - kiss her before you even get back to her place! Kiss her as if its no big deal- like you kiss everyone you know everyday! Whilst walking and holding hands, spin her and kiss, or hug and kiss - will make the rest of the f-close a hundred times easier later.

Also if you do end up at hers without kissing then you can use external tricks to help reduce the awkwardness, e.g. share a drink, play music, dance with her in the lounge, also talk about sexual topics that will turn her on e.g. where is the craziest place she has had sex, etc...