Good thing no one in Serbia ever reads this stuff, or gets hit on by people that have read it Seriously though, I'm pretty sure no one here has any game whatsoever.

My observation over the years, which is also brought out by science, is that people mate with people who are similar to themselves. Not just looks but personality. if a womans Dad is a mechanic, and you are, you might hav e better chance.

If she is a corporate lawayer and you work at Burger King, possible? maybe, realistic nah.

But most guys struglling with women, struggle with all women, and thats where pua comes in, to get the getable.

But read this:

The People You Date Are the People You Can Date, Science Says

Good news for people who date people! Generally, the people you want to date are people who might want to date you, people of the same "desirability" and/or "hotness"! Does this, perhaps, seem sort of untrue based on your recent dating history? Well, that must be because you are choosing people who don't want to date you -- people who are, for lack of a better phrase, "out of your league." That is unnatural, a bastardization of humanity, akin to a duck falling in love with a dog. A scientific study out of the University of California, Berkeley, has determined that, in online dating at least, couples were attracted to each other based on a similar level of attractiveness and social desirability. This is called the "matching hypothesis," or "how the world works, sometimes."

This means two things: Opposites do not attract (even though we're pretty sure that old chestnut has to do with personalities rather than looks), and basically, you date at about the highest levels of what you can get, and vice versa. Also, when online dating, photos are important.

Though there was some fluctuation,

Individuals on the dating market will assess their own self-worth and select partners whose social desirability approximately equals their own.

Using data collected in the laboratory and from users of a popular online dating site, the authors found evidence for matching based on self-worth, physical attractiveness, and popularity, but to different degrees and not always at the same stage of the dating process.

The most striking prediction is that undesirable individuals will choose undesirable partners.

[quote="midlife_crysus"][quote="pumpington"][quote="JonnySniper"]

Individuals on the dating market will assess their own self-worth and select partners whose social desirability approximately equals their own.
/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Despite everything, it's rare to see a guy punching significantly above his weight. This is why it's so important to expand your life and be the best you can be, not just the best at talking to girls. Having a good whole and complete lifestyle to compliment your social skills.

_________________
La Dolce Vita.

Yes, but most methods center around techniques and abc systems. If you have a good whole and complete lifestyle, you wont need help with women.

If we have a great job, a nice place, a big social circle and respect, we also have women, you cant get one without the other.

confirmed by science? the science of who? care to sight a link to a reputable scientific study that confirms this? (ok cupid data isn't exactly a scientific study, infact it's arguable that data that is only taken from one source such as a dating website is extremely biased)

pretty much common sense that the norm is people try to date the best partner they possibly can, and I agree with you, commonalities attract, however your personal observations contradict my own, and this post only stands to deter people from approaching women they are interested in based on their own personal level of self esteem, not only this but women have more of a tendancy to weigh things such as social status and financial status higher in a partner then men do, as well as a mariat of other things that affect those two factors (confidence, power etc.)

your post speaks for people that are not in the habit of mass approaching the opposite sex

however, when you are physically average to slightly above average the vast majority of women find you, ''physically attractive enough'', it's safe to say that you potentially have access to the whole dating pool and looks are no longer so much of an issue (assuming you are meeting the ''vast majority of women''), you don't nessicarily have to be a brad pitt look-a-like but obviously everyone has different standards, on top of that what is seen as goodlooking is subjectively different from person to person for both male and female alike

if you go out any day to a mall, and just sit on a bench all day, check out all the couples that go by for a good hour or so, you will see plenty of couples that are subjectively according to the way you classify looks ''not on the same league''

it happens all the time, if you just look for it, you'll be able to spot it fairly regularily, guys who trade down and girls who trade down (they probably don't feel that way, but everyone has a different opinion of what is attractive), guys are way more notorious for this because there are a fair amount of guys that like promiscuity and want to sleep with multiple sex partners, so as long as a girl is ''good enough'', he will be open to sleeping with her, even if he is seen by society physically as a 9/10, it doesn't nessicarily make that girl who society deems a 7/10 any less appealing to sleep with for him, and the same goes for girls who are on the dating market interested in meeting guys

is it the average? no, your post points that out and I agree, but is talking to hundreds of new girls a week like you should be doing when trying to learn how to pickup the average? ask yourself that, really the only thing to question is how much do you fear rejection, and how many new women do you meet, there really are no leagues unless you follow and conform to social norms, the quality of the girls you get is releative to how much effort you want to put in and how realistic you are being

as previously stated, if you are socially seen as unattractive, you will have problems attracting the opposite sex, even ''within your league'', because naturally people aren't turned on by people they don't find attractive, being unattractive doesn't change this but that person might become so frustrated and desperate they will settle for someone who doesn't turn them on, unattractive guys will have trouble attracting hotties just like they will have trouble attracting normal girls, just like they will have trouble attracting unattractive girls, and when you are attractive and find it easy to attract women, you will find it easy to attract attractive women just as much as you find it easy to attract unattractive women

more important then how attractive the women are, is how attractive you are, compared to how much effort you are willing to put in and what you value in a partner

Yes confirmed by science. You however talk as if you know what its all about. You have no data to support your comments, but you carry on like a master PUA.

Prove your ideas work or sit and learn from people who have proven it.

where's the scientific study that confirms this that people will not date out of their ''league''?
yes, I'm a big know it all, this is common sense crysus, looks are subjective, and there is no such thing as a ''league'', you are either attractive enough to someone to sleep with, or you are not, it is relative to the person not the society they live in, if you dis-agree with that, good for you

you can go on all butthurt about the opinions I express on this website, but when you claim something is backed by science, you should sight your source

how exactly did you prove anything that I can ''learn from''? you simply circumvented my request for a source and said ''Yes confirmed by science.'' what science has confirmed this? you have a source? or is it just the science in your head that I dis-agree with that has your jimmies all rustled?

oh so your ideas are just common sense and need no proof, but mine do.

Now, u show me your studies that show looks dont mean anything to women


Ok> Similarity (like-attracts-like)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_attraction

The notion of "birds of a feather flock together" points out that similarity is a crucial determinant of interpersonal attraction. Studies about attraction indicate that people are strongly attracted to look-a-likes in physical and social appearance ("like attracts like"). This similarity is in the broadest sense: similarity in bone-structure, characteristics, life goals, ethnicity and appearance. The more these points match, the happier people are in a relationship (Folkes, 1982, Wilson et al., 2006).

The lookalike effect plays an important role called self-affirmation. A person typically enjoys receiving confirmation of every aspect of his or her life, ideas, attitudes and personal characteristics and it seems that people are looking for an image of themselves to spend their life with. One of the basic principles of interpersonal attraction is the rule of similarity: similarity is attractive. It is this underlying principle that applies to both friendships and romantic relationships. There is a high correlation between the proportion of attitudes shared, and the degree of interpersonal attraction. Cheerful people like to be around other cheerful people and negative people would rather be around other negative people (Locke & Horowitz, 1990).

According to Morry’s attraction-similarity model (2007), there is a lay belief that people with actual similarity produce initial attraction. Perceived similarity develops for someone to rate others as similar to themselves in on-going relationship. Such perception is either self-serving (friendship) or relationship-serving (romantic relationship). Newcomb (1963) pointed out that people tend to change perceived similarity to obtain balance in a relationship. Additionally, perceived similarity was found to be greater than actual similarity in predicting interpersonal attraction. A 2004 study, based on indirect evidence, concluded that humans choose mates based partly on facial resemblance to themselves.[7]

More evidence...

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2 ... eferences/

no, you don't actually even have to answer my questions at all, you just chose to, you said that opposites don't attract and people sleep with people that are similar to them in terms of physical attractiveness and that people stay within their ''league'' and this assumes that people don't date down and this is backed by science

I dis-agree with you that you have to be in the same league physically to sleep with someone, but I do agree that commonalities do attract, how ever plenty of people date down, and plenty of people with absolutely nothing in common will end up sleeping with each other, the only thing that matters physically is that you are attractive enough, you don't have to be just as good looking or better looking, just not unattractive to the person in question, if there is a scientific study that contradicts my belief, then I would like to read it because it would be interesting

find a quote of me anywhere on this forum where I say looks don't matter... pretty sure you'll only find quotes that support the exact opposite from me, and you can probably even find a few posts specifically detailing that they do matter and are important, the thing is, social status and financial status are more important when finding a partner for women, then they are for men, it does not devalue looks at all, women are just more picky then men when it comes to choosing a partner, looks are detrimental to attracting women and they can be a deal breaker, but you won't find a somewhat below average girl who is rich that men are suddenly trying to sleep with because she drives a ferrari, or a guy trying to fuck a girl cause she can get him a spot on a tv show and has a whole bunch of other guys competing for the spot, the same can't be said for women, so in that sense if you are attractive enough, you potentially have wide access to the dating pool if you know what you're doing to generate some status for yourself
cool, commonalities attract
consider this, a male 8/10 (from your point of view) goes out to a bar, he wants to get laid, the hottest girl in that bar that night is a 6/10 (from your point of view), now the 6/10 is not ''in his league'' but he wants to get laid, so he goes up and talks to her, she gets all giggly and touchy with him, and they realize they have absolutely nothing in common, in fact she just plain doesn't really like him as a person but thinks he's hot, he asks her home and she agrees, they have sex, and he makes a new fuck buddy, maybe this sounds totally crazy and out there for you, but I actually encounter this quite often, this describes the guy that got me into pua material, he repeats this process as often as he can, attempting to get the best girls he can as often as possible, but trust me, he is more then willing to run down the scale to girls that are no where near ''his league'' and he is very good looking

now, is this scenario completely out there?, is this incredibly hard to believe that someone would do this male or female? they have to be ''in the same league''?

you don't see this happening on a regular basis? every time I'm at the mall I see couples that are mis-matched physically, people will sometimes trade off when they are desperate or find someone they have a lot in common with who is not physically ''in their league''

have you not dated up or dated down yourself?

Now you know more than researchers. you break down their studies and accept what you want and disregrad the others.

Meanwhile you offer no research that anything you ever said on this forum is true, and not hogwash you believe is true.

I gave you studies, where are yours?

The answer is, they gravitate to their own kind, and with regards to looks, they view people at their own level of attractiveness and go after that. Whatever the reason, but the main reason is they subconciously know that is what they have the best chance of succeeding with.

So if that is true the hot ones wont want you unless you are hot too. You might soil her family tree!

Guys, I don't think it's questionable that most people date within their league. But luckily we're men and we can make our any league we like, it's just much easier if you've already got money, status and looks. If I want to date ugly girls I could. I don't. I know what I like and what I want and I go and get it. But most guys aren't consciously improving their abilities with women, and so they mostly date within their league and only date above or below if they are successful or have low or high self confidence. Now there are thousands of exceptions and millions of girls dating guys far less attractive than themselves, but the averages are there and they are real.

_________________
La Dolce Vita.

do you get this irate and spiteful every time someone dis-agrees with your opinion?

why does it bother you so much that someone asks you for a link to a study? especially when you say that what you are saying is ''backed up by science''
you posted two links and the first link you linked don't even suggest that people won't date people that are not physically the same as them, they just suggest that commonalities attract, not that ''they have to attract'' or ''people who are physically not the same won't date'' or ''people without commonalities won't have sex'' they simply suggest that it's common for people to seek out mates that are similar to them, no where on that whole wiki page does it suggest that people don't end up mis-matched or don't date outside of what is physically the same as them, there is a big difference between commonly, and always

the second link was a study done on hot or not, that basically states how physically attractive someone is does not alter there perception of how physically attractive someone else is, but people who are rated as more attractive, have more rigid standards, it states that people look for traits comparable to their parents and go for what they find attractive not necessarily that everyone has a universal ''league'' that they date within, just simply
even though the data is biased to one particular source (a website hot or not), what it does not state is that people always date people physically the same as them, it just suggests that attractive people are more popular to date, have higher standards, and tend to date other people that are rated as attractive, it also doesn't even specify what even qualifies a person as physically attractive

if you qualify to a person as physically attractive enough, you are within their dating pool, you do not have to be ''in their league'' and looks are subjective from person to person, if a girl thinks you're attractive but you're deemed as a 7 and she's a 10, irrelevant, you are attractive enough, if a girl likes fat guys but is an 8, and you are a fat guy socially considered as a 4 to most, irrelevant, you are attractive enough, it's subjective to what the person values as attractive

also, with all this focus on looks, if you are under the impression that girls seek out guys with the same sexual criteria as guys, and need references to theories relating to evolutionary psychology and the idea that women seek out men who are not only ''good looking'' but have a wider access to resources and security (social status/financial status), there are plenty of books out there for you, the red queen for one is a pretty good read and matt ridley has won numerous awards for his books (non fiction), but there are tons out there, just google ''books on evolutionary psychology'' and look specifically for books that relate to sexual selection and natural selection, it's not like what I'm saying is purely conjecture but you're the one who is claiming that your opinions are ''based on science'' with nothing sighted at first to give an insight as to what science exactly supports your opinion, and then getting upset when someone has a different view from your own and would like to see what you are referring to
commonalities attract, but looks are subjective, and plenty of people will sleep with others that they are not all that attracted to when they are short on options or are into a lifestyle of promiscuity, if you haven't seen this in your own life then that suggests you don't interact with very many people, everyone does not share a universal ideal of what is attractive, not male, not female and you don't need a study to prove this, just a pair of eyes and a couple questions for more then 10 people, just ask them what turns them on in the opposite sex and it's highly likely that you will have a range of a bunch of different answers (especially if you are asking girls)
hmm, sure, but by that logic you seem to be presenting the idea that unattractive girls want unattractive guys... every girl and guy won't want you unless they find you attractive, hard to be attracted by something you are not attracted to
the unattractive ones are the same way, and what one girl who is deemed an 8 finds as attractive can be vastly different then what another girl who is deemed an 8 finds attractive, but the real question is, what does that girl personally see as ''hot'', just because a girl is a 4, doesn't mean she wants to sleep with male 4s, just because a guy is a male 5, doesn't mean he wants to sleep with female 5s, and it doesn't mean that they will end up sleeping with a 4 and a 5, what matters is if the person in question finds the other person attractive or not, not if you personally objectively see them as ''in the same league'' or not, a 9 is just as likely to fuck a guy you perceive as a 7, as a guy you perceive as a 9 when she perceives both guys to be a 7, it's completely subjective to the girl in question rather then the ''league'', and once you qualify to a person as ''attractive enough'' then you have potential access to them and they are within your dating pool

if you look at a girl and think... yeah definitely an 8/10, that girl should be with Xguy because she's an 8/10, then she goes and dates some fat ugly club owner guy with lots of money that she has a whole bunch of thing in common with, instead of the hot looking poor guy showing up at her work with flowers that she doesn't find all that interesting, is that so mind blowing?.... BUT WHAT? NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE? QU'EST-CE!?

and thinking like this is just creating a bunch of negative stereotypes in your head about people, it's like guys that rationalize that good looking girls are all stuck up bitches, absolutely not so

and perpetuating these kind of beliefs on a pickup forum is the equivalent of telling guys ''don't go approach that girl you are interested in, that girl is out of your league'' absolute bullshit, and it reflects a guy who never tries and wants excuses so he can rationalize that he is helpless and doesn't have to put forth an effort, guarantee you plenty of guys who have got into cold approach have dated up, and plenty have dated down, you don't need a study to prove the completely obvious

your personal experience and ''science'' say that people won't date outside their league, my personal experience contradicts the idea that there is such thing as a universal ''league'', you are either attractive to someone or you are not, and it is subjective from person to person, if that enrages you to the point where you want to have a 20 page flame battle insisting that I'm acting as some sort of arrogant ignorant expert who is not entitled to a conflicting opinion, while you're just stating the facts and ''it's backed by science'' even though what you are sighting that is ''backed by science'' doesn't even contradict my opinion, then hey, you're right, I'm wrong, have at it, I'm not interested in continuing this thread any further, it's pointless

I gave you plenty of scientific evidence. Does it mean a woman wont overlook your looks if you can offer her money, power, and status? No.

Looks are not that subjective. Put a super model next to whoppe Goldberg, not one person will say whooppe is better looking.

the subjectiveness is decided by your own level of attractiveness.

If you are a 6, women who are 6's will seem hot. If you are a 10, 10's will seem hot.

We adapt our tastes on what we can get.

Will a 10 date a 6? yeah if u have something that overiides it all like alot of money, or status.

But Im still waiting for your scientific studies.