ok i will give two versions of this story, the long version and the nutshell version. let me say first that i dont meet women with the goal of having sex ASAP. i am willing wait as long as there is light at the end of the tunnel (and NOT marriage)

ok i met this chick at the club, kiss closed and # closed her. we have been on 3 dates since then (about 2 weeks of knowing each other). shes really smart, got a scholarship to college for chemistry, she is a cross country runner, she has a great body, and she is the perfect height. well last night she came over, and we were talking and it came up how she has only had one boyfriend, and that only lasted like 3 weeks. so i ask "you havent hooked up with anyone since then?". she says no, so i say "ok, so you're a virgin then..." and she says yes. keep in mind, i didnt say that in a way that made me sound excited and turned on that she is a virgin. in fact, i dislike 22 year old virgins. so i was like ok, and then after like 2 minutes of silence she bluntly states "im not going to sleep with you." i was shocked and pissed. she said it like im with her just to have sex. so i tell her thats not how it is, thats not how i am, and she apologizes. the conversation then got to the point where she said she was waiting till marriage.

nutshell version: i met this shy/timid girl, she is awesome, she is 22 and a virgin, and she says she is waiting till marriage.

i really like this chick, but i cannot wait till marriage to have sex lol. i would NEVER marry someone without knowing the sex life is gonna be good. im 21, i need to live a little before i turn 30. i am a very sexual person, i dont think i can be with someone who is waiting till marriage. im willing to wait if i know its going to happen, but not if it takes marriage

so basically what should i do? move on, find someone else? she is a really great girl though, thats why im stuck. she has never even made out with a guy like we have been making out before, maybe i could make her feel good and comfortable enough to not want to wait.

you could maybe freeze her out a couple of times.

but i not sure if you wanna go around corrupting good girls... lol.

just keep on trying and then find another girl.

yes, freeze outs are what im planning. im not trying to corrupt her... i think its kind of stupid to wait till marriage and then the sex is bad or something lol.

im not trying to get into her pants then leave her to hang out and dry...THAT would be corrupting.

im gonna totally loose interest in her if i cant vent my sexuality

If you feel like this is a fundamental belief on her part, and not just because your game isn't up to snuff, then I would respect her decision and leave her be. This is one of her core beliefs, and to change that would require you to basically mold her into a different person, one which you may not end up liking as much as the one you are seeing right now.

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good point. i dont think it has anything to do with game though. she did much of the work for me. i hardly had to game her. shes been single for like 2 years or something, so i can see why it was so easy to k-close and #-close her

Waiting till marriage is either a lie or the truth. Either way your not going to get laid anytime soon. So I would keep this girl as a pivot but not plan on getting any closer.

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Just cause she won't have vaginal/penile sex doesn't mean she won't have anal and/or oral.

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Venusian Arts
Virgin -> 60+ Girls in 6 Months!

i could settle for that, but i highly doubt she would do that. she seems very timid about that stuff. i dated a similar chick a while back, and im seeing the same signs

oh well, im going sarging tonite and tomorrow night

Deserved to be said again.

If this is something you need for the relationship to have value to you and you don't plan on waiting till marriage with this girl and this is one of her core beliefs, then you obviously aren't in the same place. You don't fit, so move on and find someone that you fit with. Yes, sex can be be a deciding factor in a relationship, don't feel like you need to accept what you don't want.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

hmmmm virgins.....oh i'm so bad......let me help you

no matter how uptight and unexperienced she is, if she says "i am not going to sleep with you", its a shit test (its her instinct, not her fault). you responded emotional on it, you shouldn't.

you probably already got emotional/scared/silent when she said "i am a virgin", straight after that you should have said: "oh but i'm a bad boy, what are you doing here?" or "well you probably would have guessed now that i am defintely not!" (or anything else to give her the impression that you are fucking thousands of girls and she's at the wrong place)
(remember that a virgin is never looking for a male-virgin, but instead is unconsciencely looking for the baddest mf*cker to help her move on, an angel boy wont be able to do ti)

anyway, if she says "i'm not going to sleep with you", just say: "I KNOW, thats why i have other plans with you". she will think she's special and you will marry her, but then you shock her and say: "because i'm going to adopt you and make you my little sister, so we can go out together and you can help me get chicks. ok?? no? hmmm if you don't do that, i will tell mommy that you kissed me, you have to!"... if you bring this in a nice way she'll accept immediately (also to confirm that she wont sleep with you).
just befriend her (but keep gazing at her eyes once in a while or grabbing and kissing her once in a while to confuse her, keep the tension going, but just let her know indirectly that you can never be with her because she's not into sex), go out with her and get chicks' phone#, show her your skills.
when she doesnt go out with you , just tell her on the phone how many chicks you are banging (never brag, just let her figure it out indirectly: is he really banging other chicks?? oh my god, no!)
this way you show her: "that she's not special", she'll hate you for it and will seek validation to get her "specialness" back and to get this she will come on to you. And one day when she has really had it, she's just going to plan to jump you (if she finds the guts for it or you create the occasion).

Sometimes you first have to change some logic in her brain for her to be able to really stop wanting to be a virgin, you do this by telling her that her beliefs ar not logical: Tell her that guys who only want to marry virgins are insecure, they want a virgin because they cant handle a real woman. And these types of guys are really jealous and possessive. Do you really want this type of guy? (she will say: no no no) Well this is the guy you will get if you marry as a virgin. (repeat this a few times)
Tell her that you think sex should be unplanned and passionate, and if you would marry somebody and had to have sex on marriage day you probably wouldnt even get it up because you will not be horny or passionate at all, because its all planned (girls actually think like this, so she will understand even though you wont). Tell her that that would ruin the passion for sex with your wife for life. (repeat this a few times)
All of thses logical explainations have to be done before you are actually in bed with her or in any aroused state, you can't do it last moment, because you have to address this to her logical brain. And when you are in bed, you dont want to address her logical brain, because you want to keep her in a horny state.
Or you can make up anything else to show her that her beliefs are ridiculous. The 2 reasons i just gave you are the best though.

btw never ever ask her this question directly: "either we become friends or you fuck me", that is bad manners, this will make her run from you as far away as she can. plus you remove the opportunity for her to ponder about this herself. instead you should let her question it herself all day long: "does he want to become friend or does he want to fuck?". never let her figure it out. you show her in indirect ways that you consider her a friend but once in a while you still gaze at her, or grab or kiss her passionately, this will create mixed feelings in her which work like a charm, she has to be unable to figure you out / get confused / think about it all day.

if all else fails, give her some alcohol (after you have did the logical explaination already to make her beliefs ridiculous). if you think she refuses to drink (most virgins dont drink), do it like this: take her to a fancy restaurant with old people, order a bottle of wine without asking her. when the wine comes the waiter will poor it in her glass, if she says nooo!, tell her: "hey its just wine, its mostly grapes and water, its not wodka or something like that, we are in a restaurant for gods sake! look around, all the old people are even drinking it! are you from another planet? dont you have manners?" just make her look stupid. she will feel uncomfortable and will try to fit in.
then if she doesnt finish it or refuses glass number 2, just tell her that its a very expensive bottle of wine and you cant finish it alone. (this line could also be used for the first sip, but remember that you need more lines to make her drink more, one glass wont do it).
then take her to a club/bar where she doesnt know anybody and its really crowded and dark. give her one more alcoholic drink when you get in, make her drink it. later the crowd will press her to you, you kiss her and touch her etc.. you will make her horny, then tell her: let me bring you to the next club... and instead you drive her to your home... tell her "trust me there is a party there with some of my friends", inside: hey where did they all go? well lets make our own party and smash her against the wall (watch out for her head), kiss her and strip all her clothes off. if she complains, say: "you are right, we shouldnt do this", but just keep going, dont get her out of the mood by logic, keep her emotional. 2 steps forward, 1 step back (push pull) work on any woman, so also this virgin, so easy out with your aggressive approach a few times. just take a step back, but never do total freeze-outs on virgins, during total freeze-outs she will be able to logically think for a few seconds and probably rationally inhibit herself for the next round.

make sure you have lubrication jelly at home, it might be hard to get in. you dont want to fail at putting it in, once you finally succeeded with everything else haha...

Damn.., if I was single I'd marry her.

You know, after a few dates or something. Her replication value is clearly off the scale.

What's her number?

One question? You said you can't wait until marriage to have sex. You've never had sex either?

One other thing. As far as sex is concerned.. Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance.

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lol, or more then likely her R value is slightly below average, and only appears to have any worth due to a false pretence of scarcity.

Virgins are easy, and anyone who tells you otherwise is obviously inexperienced on the subject. Sure not as easy as a non virgin, but I close virgins on day 3 like clockwork... without any LMR or BR.

Conditioning is the key women are much more mental in thier sexuality then we are... so condition her sexuality. If you express a visual concept to someone through words, in order to understand the concept it must be visualized internally. Think of it as mental kino-escelation... you condition her with sexual images, masking them as jokes first and slightly innocent, but when you have comfort, jokes still but with more and more vivid details. You mix these word pictures, with other positive emotions such as laughter and compliments, and it anchors them as positive and pleasurable events. The subconcious mind cannot tell the difference between an actual memory or one thats been visualized in great detail.

Do that and congrats! You've just altered her belief system, and now insted of seeing sex before marriage as a bad thing, she see's having sex with you as a good and pleasurable experience.

Still be prepaired however, because virgins still tend to fall in 'love' with thier first... so be ready for that, and consider if it's worth it before hand.

wow, theres so much to reply to! lol im taking her on a "suprise" date in like 10 minutes so i will have to post more later

im not a virgin, i also lost my virginity to another virgin, so i know what thats like.

and starbuck, you can have her number cause i have plenty of options anyway

i have been doing the jokes thing The Doctor mentioned, stuff like that comes natural to me..damn i gotta go, i will post more later!

EDIT: she does drink, even to the point of getting drunk

I agree with what Doc has to say, but remember that sometimes people have core beliefs and although you may have the power to make them change their mind, be careful about when you do this, because sometimes compromising people's values is very damaging to them as human beings. Ever heard the story about the guy that was against drugs, but then his friends got him to do some and a year later he's out of house and home and cracked out on a street somewhere because it was a Domino reaction and all his values toppled one after the other. I've seen this happen to people and it's not a pretty sight. Happens with people that get hooked on pickup too, look at how differently people like Papa started acting during the course of The Game.

With a virgin, changing their mind so that they don't wait until marriage is much safer than giving a guy drugs, but she might regret it and give herself a hard time for it for the rest of her life if she does get married and wishes he could have been the first.

Not saying don't try, just saying as always with the powerful tools you learn as a PUA, use care and be considerate of others.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Below average?

A woman that's promiscuous has a lower replicative value, in the same way a man has a lower survival value if he fights a lot and loses regularly.

Not only is the woman that is promiscuous in danger of becoming pregnant with another mans child, she's also in danger of contracting diseases that render her infertile.
A virgin that's over about 15 or 16 years old is not easy, IMO. And is a very rare commodity in this culture.

If she was easy, she either wouldn't be a virgin or has been locked up in a closet, etc.. somewhere.

Yeah, I like virgins. Just haven't see a verifiable one since I was about 12 years old or so.

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