This is a topic I originally posted about at Sedfast (link to original post: http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php? ... #post43482). However, I actually post over here more frequently, so I thought I'd repost it with more detail to give you guys an update about me and my relationship.

I've been dating my girlfriend for a 1 year and 10 months. She is a high self-esteem, high-sex drive, good girl. We've been in an "open and honest" poly-relationship since the first date. We started out as friends with benefits and become more serious at about the 5 month mark. We had our first threesome experience fairly early on and started attending swinger events at about the 7 month mark. It's easily the best relationship I've ever experienced.

Lately, we have been forming a social group around our various sex partners. The benefits, so far, have been pretty awesome so I thought I'd write about it. It all started with the inclusion of my girlfriend's new guy, Devo. She originally talked to him on OKCupid, but then we ran into him at a dance club before they could formally meet up. He could dance, he was a natural and he wasn't a hater so instantly took a liking to him. At the end of the night, we invited him and his friend, Inexperienced Guy, back to my girlfriend's place. After lots of drinks, Inexperienced Guy passed out and we had a threesome with Devo.

For those of you who don't know, MFM threesomes are actually pretty fantastic. It's like watching really good porn, while simultaneously getting a blowjob. Furthermore, it's a great thing to be able to help fulfill a girl's sexual fantasies. For a lot of girls, a MFM will cause them to cum harder and more easily than they ever have in their life. Girls will appreciate you a great deal for being the one to help provide that experience.

Devo walked away from the experience thinking threesomes were pretty much the best thing ever. My girlfriend and I both enjoy Devo's company because he's fun to hang out with and he's a natural who doesn't understand the concept of jealousy or monogamy. Lately, the three of us have become the core of a very sexually open social group.

The three of us in a social setting confuse everyone around us. My girlfriend is not shy about PDA and will bounce back and forth between the two of us. The result of this is that the topic of our open relationship always comes up. Furthermore, Devo and I work well together to outrageously flirt with all of the girls around us and my girlfriend is always there to assure the girls that this is socially acceptable behavior.

To illustrate how this works, I will share a story from two weekends ago. On that Friday night we got a group of people together to go see a concert at Summerfest. It was the three of us, a 20 year old named HBSwings, Inexperienced Guy, and a girl he works with named HBInnocent. Devo had been hanging out with HBSwings for a few a little while and my girlfriend already made it known that she really liked the girl. I hadn't met HBSwings at this point, but my girlfriend had already told her that she could have a threesome with us if she wanted.

During the evening, Devo and I took turns flirting with all of the girls and making sure everyone had a really good time. It got to the point where one of us would make out with a girl while the other one came up behind her and started kissing her neck. All the girls got a fairly equal amount of attention from the two of us. My girlfriend also made a point to isolate each girl (bathroom breaks) just in case they had any questions or concerns about the open relationship stuff. She also let it be known to me that she approved of both girls. By the very end of the concert all of the girls were having fun so we headed back to my girlfriends place for more drinks.

I honestly didn't know what was going to happen at the end of the evening. At one point I asked my girlfriend what she had in mind and which girl I should be flirting with. She just told me that she was having fun and that I should flirt with both girls. As a result, I just let the girl's situate themselves. HBInnocent gravitated towards me, HBSwings ended up in a hammock with Devo and my girlfriend ended up chatting with Inexperienced Guy.

At about 3 AM, after signalling my intentions to my girlfriend, I pulled HBInnocent into my girlfriend's bedroom and started hooking up with her. My girlfriend popped in every once in awhile to get in on the fun for a minute or two, but otherwise left us alone to go play host. Devo and HBSwings ended up going back to his place (which was 2 blocks away) and having sex together for the first time. My girlfriend, much to everyone's surprise, decided to take Inexperienced Guy's V-card. However, she didn't want him to get too attached, so he walked him back to Devo's place (where he was staying) and ended up staying over there and sleeping in a bed with Devo and HBSwings.

Everyone was really, really happy the next day. Many high-fives were given. Furthermore, my girlfriend and I had a threesome with HBSwings that night.

I've come to realize that my next goal in pick-up is to try and grow this group as large as I can get it. It is social circle game taken to a whole different level. Blackdragon calls it "referral game", which is appropriate because Devo keeps introducing us to girls he knows.

Comments and questions are welcome!

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

That's cool man I am glade that you have found happiness in your relationship and in life! An open relationship is not my thing, I enjoy a monogamous relationship as long as my gf is good looking (HB 8 to 10), has a high sex drive, and is super kinky!

My problem with open relationships is that for most people they only work in theory, although for some they are perfect! (like your self), In most cases one person starts to get jealous, or one person starts to develop feelings for someone they are fucking on the side (usually the female). Unlike men, women are not able to separate sex and emotion, a girl will always become attached to any man she sleeps with in some way, a man on the other hand can sleep with a women and have no feels for her at all!

I have a test for you, (It will only work if your gf is not on the pill?) when your gf is ovulating (before her period) check to see who she wants to have sex with the most, women naturally want the most alpha male around this time, and ignore most other men. The guy who she picks is the guy who she would pick if she had to be monogamous, this is a pretty accurate test to gauge who she values most, and who she sees as the alpha....it can also be a shock!

Also sexual openness is not a sign of high self worth or self confidence at all! It can be a gauge of how comfortable someone is with their sexuality, but most often the women that are the most open are also the most flawed....again this is not always the case but I am willing to bet that most women from good families, with high self worth are not swingers or in open relationships.

The truth is that although monogamy is not for everyone, jealousy is very natural! Women will naturally become attached to the "alpha" male and become jealous of other women who try to compete with her, and men naturally are territorial and do not like to share if they have something they feel is rare.

That being said if two people can have an open relationship and be happy all the more power to them! in fact I think its great when a couple can make it happen! its something that long term I rarely see! and its very interesting to me! its a really cool social dynamic....when ever I meet "swinger" couple they seem to have formed a community of sorts, or a family of people who they trust and sleep with, it really is interesting!

problem with this is that ovulation in the human female is hidden. it happens between day 8 and 20 with an average around day 14.
it got me in trouble once... one night (the 14th day!) my GF was in a very cuddly no sex mood.. and thinking about this test I got somewhat weirded out.. the next morning she jumped on my bones..
this month I believe J had an early ovulation (around day 10) since she basically raped me last weekend

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nice guys don't get laid
"It's disrespectful not to bang them when they sleepover." (Hellhound)

yeah but usually if you have been with a girl long enough you just know...my girl I can tell 1000% when she is ovulating! its about a week and a half leading up to her period, and last up until her period, she is always horny! she can have sex and masterbate, shes more agressive and kinky! plus its a pattern for the most part so one you figure out her patterns you will know.

Dark one, first of all, thank you for your response! You said some very nice things and I really appreciate the input. I'm sorry to hear about your recent break-up. I hope things are going as well as they can for you.
This is a common misconception. The swingers we have met tend to be very well adjusted. You can't have a stable swinger relationship without great communication and high self-esteem. Insecure people with low self-esteem just don't last long in the swinger community. As a whole, my girlfriend and I have found swingers to be exceptionally friendly and outgoing. People who cause any kind of drama at events don't get invited back.

The majority of swingers are couples who have been married for 10+ years and turned to swinging to put the spark back into their sex life.

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

Yeah its a tough relationship to have! I don't think most couples could do it long term, but those who do seem to be very happy! which is something most people desire but never achieve! and unforchantly people are not very accepting of it mostly because it goes against everything we have been taught since we were children.

I still stand by what I said before, most (not all) but most women who come from "good" families, have a good relationship with their father, have high self worth and self esteem ect ect will never be swingers, and want a monogamous relationship. Most of the women I know who are "sexually liberal" come from broken homes, or had poor relationship with their fathers, or some kind of baggage, I actually am good friend with a well known sex therapist who is very liberal! and she her self came from a broken home, and had a poor relationship with her father, she has told me that her past shaped who she is today, and it is the reason she chose her profession.

That being said I do believe that it is possible for two people to have a healthy normal open relationship....its just rare to find two people who can keep it going long term!

Really, I feel you are focusing way too much on women in this discussion. Men lead, women follow. It's really up to guys to set the frame for an open / swinger / bdsm / etc. relationship. Girls aren't going to be the ones to bring it up. It absolutely does not matter what a girl's family life was like or whether or not she has daddy issues. If a girl is attracted to you and you lead well, then she will be up for pretty much anything. Unfortunately, society doesn't train guys how to lead effectively, which is why their are very few successful long-term swinger / open relationships.

One of the reasons I made this post is just to let people know what is possible. I think some of the guys around here would be a lot happier if they figured this stuff out.

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

You are correct that women who have a high interest level will follow your lead and do almost anything you want them to but it does not mean they will enjoy the out come, they do it because they don't want to loose you...they are not making a logical decision, its 100% emotional, so if a girl does not want an open relationship but she thinks it will make you happy, she will convince her self that she wants it in order to please the man. If this is the case, down the road jealousy starts to kick in, or she could become attached to another mate, there are so many variables!

All I am saying is that open relationships are great if you can get two people who are 100% on the same page, and both those people really want the same thing in a relationship! but 99% of the couple out their would not be able to handle an open relationship long term.

Some people are happy in monogamous relationships, they are content, other feel unfulfilled, and need to have an open relationship. I don't think either one is wrong or right, but I do tend to believe that most couples wouldn't last a year in an open relationship.

p.s I think its a great post! I am not attacking you in any way! I applaud you for being able to keep an open relationship. I know how women think, I have been doing this a long time, and have experienced a lot! Women are usually not logical enough to be in open relationships....what they say now means nothing long term! "I love you" means I love you for now, "I will always be with you" means I will be with you until you start acting beta and another alpha male comes along.

No worries, it's fine to have a minor disagreement about this stuff. It leads to good discussion. I appreciate your comments and feedback.

I just dislike the stereotype that most sexually liberal women had issues in their childhood. There are plenty of high sex-drive, high self-esteem women out there, who had normal childhoods, and are all about great sex. Unfortunately, society frowns on women who publicize their sexual desires. Women usually keep their kinky-side to themselves until a guy comes around and draws it out of them (by providing a non-judgmental environment where they can express themselves).

Freaks tend to display their sexual side much more openly than other women, because they like the attention / validation. It's the reason that the stereotype exists. AFC's don't typically seek out a girl's kinky side (or provide a non-judgmental environment), so the only time they get to do kinky things is when they date freaks.

(Note: I use the the term "freak" in reference to "freaks, ho's, and good girls theory")

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

I gotta say, the description in the first post sounded kinda nasty to me. Having the one you loved get fucked and ganged banged by other guys constantly does not sound appealing, social conditioning or not.

I wouldn't mind gang banging a girl I don't really care about with a friend. That's a fun adventure.

I'll keep an eye out for this thread because I'm interested in having two girlfriends in the future, and I mean with them knowing each other and participate together. Kinda like Charlie Sheen and his goddesses.

Winning!

+1. I was reading the post, visualizing me witnessing my GF taking other cock in front of me.. not a good feeling.. and I certainly couldn't feel an aroused approval..

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nice guys don't get laid
"It's disrespectful not to bang them when they sleepover." (Hellhound)

I have never understood this assertion. Maybe this was true in 1975, but it certainly is not anymore. If anything, women are more sexually liberal than men and it is glorified and reinforced all around us.

Think about it...

You have shows that glamorize young girls getting knocked up, like Teen Moms.

You have the stripper profession, which is mainstream for females, but it is almost a joke to be a male stripper.

How about the porn industry? Many women run the most powerful porn distribution companies out there and the female 'actors' make five, ten, or twenty times the money as the men do. They are paraded around on the radio and talk shows like it's super cool.

How about lesbianism and bisexuality? "I Kissed a Girl and I Liked It" has been the mantra of the female segment of the population for about fifteen years now. Girls openly flaunt their sexuality, experiment, and this behavior is supported and reinforced by their entire social circles.

How about the stigma on gay men but the way that society LOVES lesbians?

OK, how about clothes? Women wear tight, sheer, see-through, form-fitting clothing, scantilly-clad, revealing skirts and tops, bikinis, etc... Flirtateous words splashed across cleavage and buttocks, like JUICY, PINK, HOT, LOVE IT!

Then you have the magazines, ever walk through a grocery store checkout aisle, the women's magazines are out and proud about sex. The headlines read "100 Ways To Make Him Blow His Top" and "Why You Really Need To Try a Threesome" and "Anal, Is It For You???" You will see NO such men's magazines paraded in public in grocery stores and other family-friendly environments.

I'm not a swinger, but I have associated with about three different groups of swingers (I was a bartender in a strip club) and they mostly claim that "the women run the show, the men are along for the ride, it's all about her comfort, her pleasure", etc...

What about the female role models? Beyonce, pop singers, undulating their hips and labias all over MTV in the camera? Am I imagining that? Nope, it seems they all actually dress like prostitutes and dance like raging sex maniacs.

So, tell me where exactly is the female sexual repression being enforced by society on females?

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Mack, as a response I will use a quote from this thread:
This stereotype is exactly what I'm talking about. It's the Madonna / Whore complex in action. Every guy wants a girlfriend who's fun in bed, but they want to ignore the fact that she probably had a lot of practice with previous boyfriends to get good. Typical guys are all about a girl-guy-girl threesome, but throw another guy in the mix and it's..
Or, guys would totally be up for gangbang with a girl they don't know, but it's totally not cool if it's their girlfriend...
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WOMEN DON'T PUBLICIZE THEIR SEXUAL DESIRES. If stories of their sex life surfaced to their peer group, then it could limit their pool of potential boyfriends and open them up to public ridicule. Guys can't handle the truth so women remain discreet when it comes to their past and their kinkier sexual preferences.

Is it slowly getting better in our society? Yes. However, we still have a long way to go.

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

absolutely correct. men are territorial. an unknown girl is not "my sexual territory". I get to bang her, fine. my girlfriend's pussy is "my land", and no-one is allowed to get in there but me.

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nice guys don't get laid
"It's disrespectful not to bang them when they sleepover." (Hellhound)