I am specifically talking about men who have deep seated social issues like the lack of confidence, etc. They should be recieving deeper SPAM instead of learning how to pick up girls.

Now, I am all for well-adjusted indivdual with good self-confidence and self-understanding using canned material as a training wheel, but those people probably do not even need to learn this whole PUA scenario, as the majority of them have no problem connecting with the opposite sex and probably is satisfied with their current dating situation. I haven't seen one single man who's doing well socially and suddenly want to learn how to pick up women, personally. I wanted to learn the art before my personal transformation of becoming a leader, and needless to say the superficial methods I was exposed to did not cure my problem, but the totally unrelated life experience which helped me rise to a leader totally cured my problem, and now, despite the fact that I have an intellectual interest to learn the inner working of the community and acknowledge the truthfulness of many diverse methods, I personally have no desire to learn specific lines and such, I don't need to.

All I am saying is, if you think you have deep seated issues with confidence, rejection, or whatever, going out 4 nights a week trying to sarge chicks is NOT the best solution. My whole issue is against those who suggest the practice of outer game (which is largely composed of canned material, in my understanding) to people who probably have deeper issues.

BTW, I asked for specific response in my original post simply because I wanted to know, specifically, how would some of you deal with the problem of protecting groupies. We dealt with the problem as a group and my input was limited, so I didn't really need a detailed resolution, but I was interested in this community's response.

The problem, Frat, is that you are judging people when you really don't know them. And THAT is not called for. Hell, most guys are lacking confidence, which is why they are here, which is where the methods and systems help, which is why it's called TRAINING WHEELS, while they work on their inner game. Just because a guy lacks confidence doesn't mean he's needs mental help.

Man, you really need to get off your high horse. I get the feeling that because you are in a frat you think you're better than everyone else. Or is it because you're studying medicine?

There is just no reason to tell a guy that because he lacks confidence he needs deep help and doesn't need to pick up girls.

Usually I wouldn't respond to that, but hey, school's over, girlfriend went back home, so what the hell.

Now, all I made was a CLINCAL statement, which is probably true. I don't claim to be a specialist in psychology, but I think the statement I made is more analogus to a statement such as "A cancer patient requires surgery or chemotherapy". It's not a judgement of character but an assessment of a condition.

Now, I am saying that certain people needs psychotherapy, and you to take up their cause. It's noble. I don't know anything about you in real life, you could make a great mentor or you could be someone I would depise, that I have no idea, but it is a noble act to take up the cause and champion for those weaker men if you feel like I am insulting them (although I am not). Perhaps you were once such a weak man, I wouldn't know. But I do believe that such weak men need training. Maybe not as drastic as psychological help (although it's very beneficial, you need to have an open mind about psychological help), but CERTAINLY, and I mean CERTAINLY, some sort of life changing events that's focused on the greater plane of life than merely "get a girl".

Now, you can argue like mystery, that men are born to process enegies. I studied four years of biology and biochemistry and I can tell you that men are built to SURVIVE before REPLICATION. Does that mean you will follow a hypothetical book written about the method of getting food and doing nothing else? Perhaps not. You probably have higher calling in life than merely surviving by eating everyday (I hope). And by the same logic, most men have a higher calling beyond the need of merely to survive and to replicate. They have a cause, a belief, a dream, anything that keep them going.

The training wheel in PUA methods you stated are great for a man with balance and wellbeing in life, but they are double edged sword. They are poisons to those who lead an unbalanced life. I agree that supreme skill in routines and set making will allow you to replicate with any woman as you wish, to an extent, but those powerful tools can be addictive to those who are unbalanced . For example, they may give up all their life obligations and inspirations to use those tools to satisify their primal instinct, and that is the point I judge.

I judge them because as men, we progress as a society because we have higher callings beyond our instict that made our civilization florish. Art, science, philosphy, all of those were made possible because people answered the call to higher aspirations.

Now, many of those unbalanced people are in their youth, a time that would be better spent preparing for those higher callings. But instead, when you offer them the shortcut and formulas to conquer women on a short term basis, there is a danger for overindulgement. In deed, what if they abandon their work and school to spend days and days memorizing routines and methods instead of living through the thick and thin of their life and truly become a leader of men? They may be able to game women for the next few weeks, monthes, or even years, but what are they going to do when they are 40 and they missed their best chance to learn and to succeed in life, which is the essence of ultimate inner game?

I went through the path of those unbalanced people before. I tried to abandon all I have to get women, but really, do women REALLY mean that much? Do they worth any man to abandon their higher calling for? Certainly not. NOBODY should change your life or make you give up on your higher calling (I am not religious, by the way, the higher calling I am refering to is the desire to serve mankind) All I am saying here, is I hope the youth don't make the mistakes I almost made. Learning games is good, but really, inexperienced people should learn inner game first.

In closing, I remember a quote from my father, who is also a doctor.

"Remember, a male monkey can find another monkey, but it's the pursuit of enriching one's life through learning that make you human."

BTW: LA tripp, you may want to tune down the personal attack a lil bit. To attack someone personally rather than his point of view is a sign of weakness, unconfidence and DLV. I know you know better than DLVing yourself.

you have to be yourself to a point of course because woman play games so why cant men dont be a pussy strive to be better

Frat, how is my response a personal attack? Because I named your name? The reason for that is because I was addressing something YOU said. It's no more a personal attack on you than your responses to me have been a personal attack on me. Is a debate a personal attack?

Would you diagnose people that you have never met? I hope not. In that same vein, how can you dare to diagnose people on this forum, medically, that you have never met?

You say weak men need training, which is true. What you don't realize is what The Game is really all about. Which means your judgement is off. Which also means you're not qualified to diagnose anyone here. The Game is all about training guys. Period. Not just in picking up girls, but in life in general. I believe Ka already made that point to you, if you were paying attention.

Sure, these methods and systems will be taken advantage of by people. That's LIFE. Your medical field has "professionals" taking advantage of their medical knowledge all the time as well. Do they need to be told that they need phsychological help because they have low self-esteem, lack confidence, and are taking advantage of the medical system?

If a guy wants to spend his youth chasing women, and reach middle or old age w/o achieving anything meaningful in life, that's HIS decision, and not for you or I to judge.

The whole point of these methods is for guys to grow in their inner game WHILE they learn how to approach women, build comfort with them, build rapport, and seduce them. For those that are serious, the system and methods work well.

Frat, you start every post makeing reference to guys 'just learning to pickup women'.

Im getting sick of repeating myself, you are obviously not getting the point of what i and several other people are trying patiently to explain to you.

You yourself proclaim that you got into this to be the alpha of your group(s), so why is it so hard for you to understand that PUA is NOT only about picking up women.

In reference to picking up women however, most of the people who intially start PUA do it with that being one of the main reasons. Most guys, even socially compitent ones, have no clue how to aproach and build attraction with women.

Regardless of if you start doing this for women, or for work gains, or social betterment...the relization should eventually be that it needs to effect many aspects of your life.

So how about you try and keep an open mind here, you may know alot about PU...maybe more then LA, or I or anyone else for that matter. However its plainly clear from how you are communicating, that you do not think in terms of other people, and you do not accept other peoples opinions, only your own. I for one am done argueing with you, id be happy if someone just locked the thread to keep this from escalating anymore.

_________________
-Ka-
"Be the same, only better."

If you read carefully, I never diagnosed people on this forum. I don't think ever suggested that posters on this form are psychologically weak people. It's up to you to make that association.
I thought PUA is about picking up women? You confuse me there.

. . . . . . . . . hmmmmmm Now, what was that again? What is not specifically said, is definitely implied.
I think you're confusing yourself bro.
So, you've admitted that you want to learn the art for more than picking up women. You want to learn it for your transformation of becoming a leader. Yet, you thought it was all about just picking up women?