The ratio of your shoulder width to the width around your belly button should be as close to 1.618 as possible, and your waist width should match the length of your shoulders to the bottom of your diaphragm.

I am doing the Adonis Index, am 4 weeks in and very happy with it. You should check it out.

I don't recommend you do eat stop eat, though, the diet that the Adonis Index sells, too.

Having low bodyfat (below 10 procent) is key so focus on that!

Another good advice is also being proportionate yes.

I think 'being too big' in most cases is a bit of bullshit.

Which women do not like big muscles wtf? They either lying or they either not really female.

I have this theory that big muscles means sexuality and strength (related to testosterone), in turn testosterone is the sex drive hormone.
So if a girl doesn't like muscled guys, she doesn't like wild sex. So in theory you could say you could bother less to try to pickup a girl who don't like your big muscles.

But this is all kind of sketchy, just use your common sense.
Looking like a Pro Bodybuilder will indeed turn most women off.
Everything between 'being ripped' and 'being big and ripped' is OK.

There are also some specific VISUAL aspects of your physique that makes things attractive, it's not only about 'hugeness'

for example:
Having a six pack == always a turn on
having a profound V-taper == always a turn on
having broad shoulders == always a turn on
Having a powerful looking butt (but not too huge fattish) = almost always a turn on

And then for example
Huge calves = probably more a turnoff
a flat chest with huge arms and thin legs = proably more a turnoff

i will visualize to make my point clearer:


Turnoff for most women


HOT for most women

HOT for most women

This is an example of probably 'the maximum acceptable size to be hot' but it makes it a turnoff that you can see all those veins, girls are grossed out of it.
Although for the more 'skinny' mindend girls this is already too muscled also.

If you want to stay in the 'safe zone' and be sure to get as much as possible chicks turned on by your physique: I think this should be your goal:


However you can look bigger, this has a good and a bad effect:
The good effect: It will instantly draw more attention and attraction to the girls that DO like more muscled guys, so like your chances will be bigger with these girls, but the bad part is that you will have less 'potential choice' if you understand what i mean.

The bigger you are over a certain limit = the less girls will want to hook up with you, but the more attracted the ones will be that do want to hook up with you, so you can get away with less solid game
If this makes any sense...


That said, physique is just physique, IMO you should also train for some other good martial art for 2-3 times per week. I think every man that looks strong should also be strong and know how to fight at least a bit decent. Don't turn into a pussy gymboy with a 'ripped muscled body' acting all tough that runs away if he gets punched once. Take up some boxing, muay thai, brazilian jiu jitsu or wrestling besides your bodybuilding and strength training
Besides it will only help you improve your rippedness and cardio, just make sure to eat and sleep A LOT so that making size gains is still possible.

Having an amazing body, being strong, and knowing how to fight = killer alpha male

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The king or the devil?
Fuck knows... Maybe both =))

I don't have a very solid game to be honest. I'm outgoing and I'm very good at making quick (smart-ass) remarks that make girls laugh. But other than that, I'm pretty poor, especially if I'm tired (which I'm almost always is since I work a lot and spend six days a week at the gym).

Yet, I score relatively easily, and I'm sure it's due to my size. I'm 6"2 and weigh about 250-255 lbs. Some girls practically throw themselves at me, but the vast majority settle with some more casual IOIs.
If I go to a club wearing a tank top I get lot more IOIs, and girls will often come over til flirt and squeeze my biceps. Without my muscle mass I'd be another AFC.
However I don't think I've ever scored a chick by flashing my BMW (a pretty awesome one) or due to the fact that I have a job that's very DHV (think lawyer/doctor/stock broker etc.).

IMO 99% of the guys out there would have an easier time with girls if the bulked up. Good for me that they don't.

That being said - I have two friends who have bedded 150 and 300 girls respectively. They both go to the gym, but none of them are bodybuilders or anything like that. So a solid game is still #1.

Good post. Game will always be number one, being good looking and muscular doesnt take people as far as they think it does. And I've mentioned before, this is a pua forum, not a "what body type do girls like better" forum. And as far as the too much muscle thing, dont worry about it. Most people will never have the willpower and dedication to reach their natural limit, and the vast majority of people's natural limit is not considered by mainstream perceptions as "too big"

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Pain is Temporary, Pride is Forever

Damn straight!

How do you know when you've gotten too big? When all of your clothes has to be custom-tailored.

In America you can always find clothes off the rack that will fit (from what I remember from my vacation there). This thanks to your "BBW" I assume.

Just kidding - I feel that there is no such thing as "too big", but in a PUA setting I assume that "too big" is when you lose attraction from girls instead of gaining it. I believe this is an excuse guys use to be sloppy with their training. They say "I don't want to be too big", when in reality they are to lazy to put in the hours at the gym.

I added a professional body builder as a friend on facebook a few days ago. He is very, very short and of course absurdly muscular. This makes him "square shaped".
One of his albums is titled "exclusive life style". It's full of vacation photos with him and his friends hanging out with drop dead gorgeous girls who are all over him, and obviously love being tagged in his photos. I know that he has some ex-GFs that are just crazy hot.

Conclusion: more muscle mass will (practically speaking) always help your game. And even if women won't say it out loud, most of them LOVE guys with broad shoulders and big arms. I get sooooo much pussy without having to work for it simply because I'm confident and have big guns.

In fact - right now I'm flirting with a 17 year old (part time) model on facebook. She gave me her number and wants to hook up, even though several guys tried to cock-block me like hell when I hit on her - calling me a pedophile etc. I'm 30.

Of course - more time at the gym, means less time sarging. I also struggle with low energy due to the fact that I train more than many professional strongmen while putting in long hours at the office. So you have to weight the advantages of being massive against the disadvantages. Either way, working out on a regular basis and having a good diet is a good idea IMO.

Not if you're a devoted weight lifter or bodybuilder. A man's big muscular body has an entirely different set of proportions than an obese body. For one, the waist size doesn't change, even though your chest can grow 15 inches and your legs can almost double in width. The only real options are to buy clothes made for an obese person, which won't work well for a PUA because they don't fit, or to have the clothes custom-tailored. I used to do the latter and it was expensive, plus, a lot of the tailors aren't skilled in working with those proportions and they didn't always do a good job.

What is ironic is that the bigger I got, the more visible, pronounced, and emotional the sexual response from women of all ages. My body instantly put women in an aroused state that would take skilled PUAs half an hour or longer to achieve. I can't tell you how many times I would be standing in line at college, and I would turn around and make eye contact with whatever girl was standing behind me, and it would be obvious she was staring at my back (perhaps my best feature). They always had a look on their face like they just hit the "drool button", and even after I turned around and looked at them they couldn't break out of their drool state. I suspect all women have a secret fantasy or archetype image, that of a non-stop thrusting machine that ravages them, and that is what a muscular body represents to them on some level.

But think about that for a minute. One of the primary missions of a PUA is to put women in a state of arousal. With a really big, muscular body, I was able to do that instantly, and without having to use a single PUA technique. I didn't even have to speak, at least not at first.

I suspect that the only time women actually think a guy is too muscular is when it comes at a cost (the guy is dim-witted, only talks about weight lifting, etc), or if he rings their "douche-alert" signal (like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Clz0m1C0k) or that he will in some way embarrass them....in short, his muscles might not be enough to distract people from his other inadequacies.

"comes at a cost" makes perfect sense to me. Bigger guys are subjected to lame meathead gym rat stereotypes. Personality comes before muscle, if you have both more power to you.

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Pain is Temporary, Pride is Forever

I'm going to give you +3 points for this post, because it's awesome!

Two days ago I had only light cardio on my program, so I thought I'd try to squeeze som sex into my schedule. I didn't have any available prospects right there and then, so I went on-line, chatted with an average looking girl and showed her pics of myself with no shirt on.
A couple of hours later (after eating and changing from suit to regular clothes) I was nailing her pussy while playing with a dildo up her rear entrance. No game needed!
This has happened with about 20-30 girls before.

The girl I nailed this Thursday sent me a message saying "watching Spartacus on TV reminds me of your naked body" and told me how good she thinks I look naked.
When I go out I often wear a tank top, even though I find it to be vulgar and a bit humiliating (as an academic and well educated man) to be seen in this type of outfit. Those aversions quickly disappear when gorgeous girls in their early 20s come over, drunk as hell, and start squeezing my arms and flirting wildly.

I too have thought that it must be some instinctive female fantasy to be picked up, thrown onto the bed and pounded by a big brute, and then cuddle up in his big, protective arms. Something like that.
I also notice that almost all women want me to nail them really hard once I get going. So much for feminism.

You can't get too big unless you take steroids.

If you stay natural you will never be too big

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The best way to initiate kino, is...

step 1) Take your hand
step 2) Place hand on girl
step 3) ?????
step 4) PROFIT
-Pumpington

Ive said this before in this forum. And besides, 99.99999999999% of people dont even have the knowledge or willpower to approach the "too big" limit through only natural means.

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Pain is Temporary, Pride is Forever

I take steroids, clen and HGH (not all at the same time, though). I'm dating about five girls right now, and just snuck out of the office to have a quick make-out session with a hot chick (ex-model) who works at at sex shop down the street.

She used to date body builders, and one of the other girls I'm sleeping with (18 year old blonde) told me she only goes for big muscular guys. She thinks pro body builders are hot.

I do think that a guy who is 6 feet tall with a 220lbs frame and a ripped physique has enough muscle mass to make girls drool. Any more is just a bonus IMO. I don't think the "getting too big" dilemma is relevant unless you happen to be a professional body builder (and maybe not even then. I've seen som builders with crazy hot chicks).

This