Hey guys,

I've been lurking on this forum for a while now reading up on tactics, openers, routines. Unfortunately I feel I've found a block in the road which I cant overcome particularly easily.

I am meeting my own personal goals in terms of nightly objectives, talking to some girls and on occasion getting to use routines I have learned. Unfortunately I am finding more and more that my social circle is becoming the main barrier between me and the sets I want to open.

Initially when my friends were less aware of what I was doing our nights were very much about having fun which allowed me to build social proof quite easily. Now the situation has taken a turn for the worst and its becoming the norm for my friends to stand around and expect to talk to girls. Problem is they break every rule in book, staring for long periods, standing awkwardly still in dancing areas, following me into sets, interrogation women in loud areas etc.

Although as a university student nights are often about attempting to pull initially it didn't affect my ability to create social proof. Now more and more I'm finding that I cant create social proof and its taking a toll on my confidence.

So ye in summary, I'm attempting to improve my skills mostly in clubs and bars (as that's where students go). Apart from the fact that student clubs are often to loud for opening, in situations where opening seems viable my friends destroy any social proof I attempt to build. I am wondering how I might overcome this problem without abandoning my social circle or drinking copious amounts of alcohol.

Quick funny story - The worst offender of our group literally sweats social awkwardness. Stood in a crowded club on the dance floor behind the rest of us absolutely still staring at a blonde for about 5 minutes(HB8 or 9). He then proceeded to type onto his phone "Whats your name?" and showed it to the girl (who was not only completely unaware of his presents but actively ignoring most people). At this point she moved away and he showed the message to her friend. When they moved away he continued to stare at them.

Seriously the above happened, and it happens often.

Am I going about this the right way, should I be practicing in more logistically viable situations? (i.e. quieter, solo etc) Any general advice?

Thanks for any replies in advice.

I basically have two groups of friends, the ones I can hang out with and are generally nice people, and guys I like to go out with. Both have their own benefits, the really nice guys are betas, but will always have your back, they are the type of guys I will be friends with for the rest of my life. The guys I go out with however are very alpha, while they are still "nice" in a sense we do not really have anything in common other then us collectively using our social proof.

Most importantly do not try and change your friends into pick up guys. I have tried this and its more then just giving them some advice, if they are as socially awkward as you say they are they need to come to realize for themselves what they are doing wrong. Most people learn by the time they are in university, but if they haven't they will learn the hard way how to fit in. If you are afraid that being seen with him will lower your social value, your not really alpha (in no way is this aimed at you).

Here is an example I have a friend of mine who asked me to help him make friends, but refused to take any of my simple advice (shower more often, wear clean clothes, get nice shoes). It came down to me realizing that he did not want my help, but my pity. This guy went through a huge slump, he asked out a girl to go dancing with him, when she didn't show up he called her a left two messages, he then went to her dorm, knocked on her door and her neighbors door to find out where she was. Needless to say he creeped her out! I know he learned critical social boundaries that day though, and some part of me wants to believe he has aspergers.

Hope my experiences help you in your decision.

Originally I was worried that my lack of confidence stemmed from my inexperience with women. What you say about separate friend groups seems to make alot of sense. Although technically I already have 2 attempting to make a third (possibly within a society of some kind) may be a good option.

Based on your story I would say your friends sounds very similar to mine. Although Id like to hope he is developing socially I have my doubts...

and how to stop fear-based approach?

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i love girls

Confidence is as much exterior as it is interior. If you are with guys that make you feel confident, usually my pick up friends , you will do way better then with the other group of guys. Its because you know you have someone to fall back on, or even the fact that someone will not come in and destroy in any minute and destroy any rapport you have just made. With my good friends sometimes I go out and end up talking to some girls, but its never the same as going out with a good wingman. As for fear based approach not sure what you mean? You should not feel fear, but nerves when you approach a girl. If you are afraid then you actually have something mentally wrong with you that you have to work on (probably social anxiety). Fear and nerves are very similar, but nerves go away as the fear will always be there if you never address it.

and you're trying to get acquainted with no friends? that is, most go into the field? you get it?

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i love girls

Not really sure what you are getting at I am guessing your English is not 100% no matter I will try and help. If you do not have pickup friends, I can see how it would be difficult to make a group of friends like that. I met them through acquaintances or some of them saw me gaming on my own. I am a DJ so that gave me social proof as well. Just show some guys what you can do and that you have balls and they will be more then willing to go out with you.