Ok so I met this cute girl in a lounge club last Friday, we talked for 15-20 min, I asked for her number and left.
A week later I invited her to go out with me clubbing, she said OK but only for a short period of time, since she has to study.
So we met at around 22:00 and went drinking into a bar.. we later switched a couple of bars. Most of the time I was teasing her , playing around, neging lightly. Anyway, we split at like 5 in the morning , although she planed to leave at midnight. We had fun.

I think the whole situation was kinda slipping into a friend zone. I mean, it was like two good friends going out for a few drinks. Any thoughts ?

What is your opinion on kissing on the first date ? I usually reserve it for the second one. On the second date I want to undo my friend zone mistake. Help appreciated.

Kino. Kino. Kino. Escalate.

Take a look at Gambler on Youtube, that shit is awesome.

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Quantity. For someday, you will find quality. And you gotta do something in the meantime.

link ? I'm new to "gaming", I don't know the masters yet

Here's the link to one of his youtube videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-unuqF4uklE

Enjoy

_________________
Quantity. For someday, you will find quality. And you gotta do something in the meantime.

Elk just look up david x and Alan Roger Currie and ditch all these stupid ass routines. Trust me these guys will save you alot of frustration when dealing with women. They both advocate being completely honest with women about what you want from them.

^Yes. I don't know about those people, but be HONEST.

You need to realize that not being physically obvious about your intentions is DISHONEST. If you are attracted to her and aren't touching her, trying to make a move, then you are probably planning to wait until the last minute then spring it on her. She'll be surprised, naturally, and be confronted with "Well you had a good time right?? You have to have sex with me!" and this isn't a comfortable feeling to have for her. She will often say no out of reflex, to prove to herself that she isn't a slut.

Now here you never put her into that position, because you wimped out on making your attentions known at all. But for the next date, know that you need to make how you feel PHYSICALLY OBVIOUS. Of course that means touching her, but it also means not masturbating for a couple days beforehand and thinking about sex with her while on the date. This will put you in a sexual state and ready to close.

I meant honest verbally and physically, shit. Just tell her, "look i have to tell you, the first time we hung out i really wanted to kiss you but i was too scared to make a move on you and right now i do not like the situation because it feels like we are just friends and nothing more". Being just "physically honest" seems pretty creepy to me lmao i mean you hit her with all these corny jokes and negs and then out of nowhere your slide your hand up her thigh? I dunno about you but when i did that shit without her knowing my intentions i just felt creepy as fuck.

Wow! Wrong, wrong, wrong! First of all, you do not just randomly "slide your hand up her thigh." Check out the kino escalation ladder. Start by small touches(brushing of arms, legs), touch her back, leg right above the knee while talking. If you do it with confidence, she will not say anything. Pretend to move a hair on her face because it's annoying you. Just do small things at first but touch a good amount.

If you state your intentions the way Disillusion told you to, you are pretty much friendzoned right then and there. NEVER say you were too scared to make a move. Always try to escalate physically and keep a sexual frame. If things go right, you should be able to naturally move onto a kiss during the first date without any problem.

Good luck man!

Elk man seriously just look up Alan roger currie and David X and you'll see why i advocate being verbally and physically direct. Or hey maybe you need to go through all this pussy ambiguous indirect shit and get frustrated a couple times before you decide to change LOL, thats how it happened with me anyways.

I think I'll go with graduate escalation.. non-verbal.. thank you Gambler... Ok, so now how do I fire her up again, and catapult us out of the friend zone ? Kino escalation again ?

I'l check out Alan roger currie and David X soon

It's not creepy. Even if YOU feel creepy, it's not creepy.

She immediately gets the point when you touch her. You don't need to say any words. If she isn't interested, she understands where you're coming from and acts physically to let you know that she isn't interested.

You can be verbally honest too, but it's a hundred times less important. And definitely don't voice your insecurities. Saying out loud why you feel bad about your relationship is a recipe to make her think that way.

Instead, flirt and talk about positives that will improve your future relationship. OP, I think you know how to flirt and tease, because you managed to make a date go well even without physicality. Bring the touching into your game, it will be much more well rounded.

Vin DiCarlo's escalation ladder is gold.

Well from my experience women love when your honest with them, especially with insecurities. For example im not a afraid to tell a girl im nervous when im talking to her because i dont give a shit what she thinks and it completely takes all the nervousness away. Cmon man you cant possibly believe advocating "fake it till you make it" is good advice rofl. As a matter of fact when you let your insecurities be known it causes her to think you are anything BUT insecure because it shows you have fears but dont give a fuck about them and arent afraid to express yourself. And also when you aren't afraid to express yourself to her, she will almost instantly become comfortable expressing herself to you, and if she is interested in you sexually/romantically, only good things can come from that. Honesty is your greatest weapon.

You are totally right mate.

But

If she isn't yet, please don't go telling her you are afraid to talk to her.

_________________
Quantity. For someday, you will find quality. And you gotta do something in the meantime.

I can see how you misunderstood my post lol. I wasnt implying that if she wasnt interested, things will go bad. The worst she can say is "im not interested" or "i have a boyfriend" however if your one of those guys with the mindset of "oh noes ANYTHING but rejection", then this doesnt apply to you. If you think a woman who genuinely isnt interested in you can somehow become attracted to you through enough "dhv stories lolz, nlp lolz, high fives lolz" then damn i dunno what to tell you, your pretty far gone. Women who arent interested will stick around for the show but purely for entertainment purposes only and because of that, it gives guys the illusion they are "winning the girl over" when she really has no intention of sleeping with or getting involved in a relationship with them. Seen that shit and experienced it too many times.

telling a girl you feel nervous cause you find her very attractive, is not very insecure, infact it shows a great deal of comfort expressing yourself, asking a girl if she likes you cause you're not sure, that is insecure, being appologetic for using up her time because you are afraid she is too good for you, that is insecure, giving a girl a new compliment every 2 minutes and kissing her ass because you think it is the only way she will hang out with you, that is insecure, saying rude things to get a reaction from her in some sort of attemtp to de-value her so she might think less of herself and more of you, that is insecure, bragging about yourself to get people to like you is insecure, hiding your intent from a girl, because you are afraid she will reject you because you are not good enough for some reason, that is insecure

a complete lack of caring, shows security, when I say lack of caring, I don't mean you absolutely could care less if a girl dies or lives, or if she is happy or sad, I more mean you are indifferent to feedback from her, you are indifferent to her opinion of you, you are comfortable and secure and confident within yourself enough to know who you are and not care about what someone else thinks about you, because you already have a solid positive self image of yourself and are comfortable expressing your intent and who you are, you don't care if she likes you or doesn't like you, and it won't effect you, take it or leave it, you are who you are and others don't define that for you, because you are secure within yourself

being honest is awesome, as long as you are genuine, your intent will congruently line up with your words, but voicing insecurities is just that... insecure, would you want to date a girl who was super clingy and kept accusing you of cheating all the time, or constantly asked you questions like, am I fat?, why do you like me?, do you like me?, you're not a player are you?

insecurity is not attractive, it leaves you thinking, what the fuck, why is this person asking this?, are they crazy? (especially when you genuinely don't line up with these insecurities)

kino can up your game a great deal, knowing how to be physical can really help, overdoing it can creep a girl out, but that's why you have to practise and learn to escalate compliance so it is comfortable for a girl, when you learn to do this and can establish some good meaningful kino quickly and can recognize when a girl is receptive or reciprocating you can offer girls alot more freedom from responsibility (being subtle with kino just to test compliance can maintain this effect even more so), expressing that you like her and testing how comfortable she is with it, without having to verbally outright ask insecure questions or voice that you are having doubts in yourself that she likes you (this shows a lack of confidence, not the end of the world, confidence can go a long way), a girl that has been flirting with you all night and touching you back after you touch her, is way more likely to be receptive to a kiss then a girl who you have not touched all night and have no idea how receptive and comfortable to touch she is, it is like a shot in the dark, and when getting physical, just running your hand up a leg for starters is not even nessicary, just escalate to test the waters, hands, arms, shoulder and back, just breif touching to stress points and get her attention, you will be able to tell right away if she is into it (she will touch you back), or she is not into it (backs away freaked out, and seems somewhat repulsed by your touch), or she will be inbetween and just allow it, you go first, she goes second, you lead, you will get your answers from what she does, you don't have to make your kino sexual immidiately, but you can, it all depends on the vibe you are getting from the girl and what you think is appropriate, but you would be surprised at some of the physicality you can pull off right away as well as conversations you can have with people that you just met, when you hold a completely non-chalant this is normal attitude, the only way you can find out what is acceptable and un-acceptable is to step outside of what is comfortable for you, and actually fail a few times and get some success to have a reference point to look back on, but adding touching to your game will certainly increase your success and ability to guage girls for interest faster and move things forward

also there is no set time that you have to kiss a girl, but generally if you are on a date, it would be a good idea to move things forward rather then allow them to become stagnant, sooner is better then never