I've known HB28DD for a long time. Shes about 5'2" 120 brunette with, as you probably guessed, 28DD's and a nice body. We've hooked up b4 but never got past 2nd with this chick. Long story short, we hung out saturday for like 4 hours. I went shopping she came with, and then we split dinner at her work. I was the man the whole time, joking with her coworkers, AMOG the shit out of the place. We bounce to her place (her idea) and are watching a movie. I go for the kiss, we make out for awhile but the second I try to escalate she pulls the we've been friends too long card on me. I say something along the lines of that making us that much more comfortable with eachother and that she makes me crazy and lets throw inhibition to the wind. She doesnt go for it but continues to make out with me until I bail to meet some friends at a hooka bar.

I pitched a perfect game, but didn't get the W. Any ideas where I went wrong? Let me reiterate that I did not try to reason with her LMR. I played the feelings card not logic and I spit some pretty sincere bullshit to that girl and I still didnt close. But that rack was off the chain....

Man... sometimes you it's really hard to take your eyes off. One time when I was on a plane this HB 9 with her nerdy husband were sitting next to me. I swear I tried to look away, but we can't fight NATURE.

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KeepNitReal

How long do you know her ? a year ?

uve gotta change her frame, when she says youve been friends for too long, tell her she's right, "this is so naughty!" and if she keeps it up the freeze her out. go watch tv, go check your email, she should come pull you back and then start again. freeze outs are powerful

Known her about 6 years, but we've hooked up and done shit repeatedly. She usually has a bf when we get together. This last sucker isn't even dating her, but bought her a tiffany's bracelet and necklace last week. And she even told me she hooked up with other guys while they were together. I dont trust women at all because of shit like this. Blows my mind. Makes me wonder how many times girls I was dating pulled skeezy shit like this. But then again I dont spring for tiffanys on every ho that makes my dick hard.

I like the reframing idea. Quality advice. Gotta put a spin on her feelings. I need to just do that in general. Thanks guys. Helpful as always.

I never heard of a freeze out until a few days ago when I was reading The Game. The I cast my mind back 10 years to when I was in college and I did just that. She (I'd just met her an hour before) was adamant that we weren't going to do it, and I said "No means no?" She said, "no means no."

So I got up and started putting some clothes back on and prepared for a sharp exit, and she jumped on top of me, pulled my pants back off, and dragged me into bed with her where we fucked the night away. Turned into an LTR too. True story.

Your situation is a bit different because of the semi-platonic history thing, but as the man said, freeze-outs are powerful.

sounds very AFC to me the fact that you demonstarte that you need to convince her to go to bed with you. I saw my mate doing this to a girl saying "yeah basically I know were friends but we can shag its fine itsonly sex, ignore all that society crap" and I just laughed at him knowing he wern't getting anywhere.

Your telling her your feelings saying your crazy for her, that also lowers her attraction for you. and showing desperation I think lowers it aswell.

I think you misinterpreted that one, man. The last thing I use is logic so I'd say I definitely wasnt trying to reason her into bed. More trying to appeal to her fun side. Like its ok to be bad when yur comfortable with eachother type thing.

if I think correct, being a little bad increases comfort,
well does it??

Girls like to be naughty. Of course it'll increase comfort. Its fun.

6 Years and you only have been her 2nd base bootie call?!? Sounds like serious 1itis.

She has dominance over deciding what direction your relationship goes. You need to change her whole perception of you (which might not be possible).

I recommend take her Sarging with you. Use her as social proof / pivot. (which sounds like what you did with her co-workers.)

The only thing you need to change, is not to "bounce to her place" even if it is her idea. Sounds like *she* used you for her social proof, all *her* co-workers saw *her* hanging out with the Alpha Male. And saw *her* leave to "go to *her* place". Once you left the group *she* was done with you. (I'll bet you've never had a good public make out session with HB28DD. Nothing breaks the JFs frame like a tongue down in front of her peers.)

So here is what you to change. Take her sarging, once you have acquired secondary HB target (HB_backup). Treat HB28DD like a pivot. Try to make sure your target is as hot as possible, HB8+. If/when HB28DD wants to split, say with a smile (pulling her closer), "No way, I having such a good time with these people. But you can leave." This is kind of a modified Neg. To offset it, pull HB28DD in a little it when you say it and give some Kino/EC. It puts you back in charge, and more importantly this should sub-conscientiously trigger her jealously switch.

She now has do defend her territory (you) from the HB_backup. *You* now become the prize. Keep HB28DD in your EC even as you keep gamin HB_backup. Use kino on HB28DD to *invite* her to escalate. If I'm right she'll eventually try to give you a tongue down in front of HB_backup.

How here is the tricky part, HB28DD is going to acting all assertive, but with a girl like her *you* need to *always* maintain the dominance. So if she starts going in for the public kiss, go caveman on her. Hard core power style. But only for like 20-30 seconds max. Stop leaving her wanting more. And then go right back into gaming HB_backup. Maybe use cocky/funny on HB_backup, and direct on HB28DD.

Point is get HB28DD out of her mind by throwing her subconscience jealousy switches, and destroy the whole "just friends" (JF) frame she has you in. If you do leave with HB28DD, keep the kino going outside of the club. If she tries the JF friends outside, ignore it and keep making out. If she does it again. go back in to the club with her and open another set with a HB_backup#2 in it.

If HB28DD doesn't start the JF speech, get into car, but don't drive anywhere. Get her naked in that car! (plan this in advance and choose a good parking spot). Blow past that 2nd base shit. F-close / BJ is the goal, right now, in the car. And keep up your dominance (stay physically on top, don't want to get graphic but literally stay on top) even if you think you've hit the home run. If you go to her place she is just going to shut you out.

After you're done in the car, go get some food, make her pay. She might start freaking out (after all you are destroy her world view of you and her). Ignore it, plow, cave man, kino, etc. Take her back to your place (not hers). You better be in good shape, b/c you need to fuck her brains out all night/morning long (3+ times). Go to breakfast (she pays or you split), and then one more session in the car or back at your place.

Remember she is not your average pickup routine you read here. You've known her for 6 years. And she has dominance over you. Also she views you as *safe*, so you should be able to go back to your place not hers (this doesn't work as well for HBs you have just met b/c they might feel scared going to some new guy's house).

Now let's say taking her out doesn't work, and she actually leaves or doesn't start trying to defend you. GREAT! b/c you have been gaming HB_backup. You just start ratcheting things up with HB_backup, shift your kino to her. And try not to settle for a #-close from HB_backup. Get her worked into your tribe. If need to isolate with HB_backup, get a wing to take HB28DD home (btw your wing *will* nail HB28DD if he is any good) or call her a cab.

This is really a great test situation, because you win either way. Plus, if HB28DD has a good time going out (after all *you* are the life of the party aren't you?!??!) you can repeat this as often as you want.

My final advise is stop fixating on HB28DD. *You* need to frame her as your pivot. B/C if you start nailing her you'll have to caveman her 110% of the time. Keep her in a perpetual DDB mode toward you. Sounds like she is used to using men, and knows how to use her sexuality to manipulate. Unless you can really be a ulitmate Alpha male/caveman naturally, you'll just end up burning yourself out when you are with her b/c you can never relax when she's around.

Have fun using her as a pivot

-Mr Hyde

Hyde,

Some solid ass advice man. Although I have had a public make out sesh with her before (at a pool a few summers ago). Shes really dumb and I'm sure she can be manipulated easily. I just haven't found that recipe for destruction yet.

The caveman idea is good. I think I have that handled. Even my boys tell me I'm an asshole, but in the it's funny, keep it up type way. I don't give girls ground in relationships. I'm in control. I feel some of that has made me a lil overconfident, bordering on arrogant and my game has been suffering. I need to just get back to my basics of reading people and telling them what they need to hear. Thanks man.