I found this quote from the Venusian Arts Handbook interesting:
To an extent this is a matter of semantics, but the point being made is an important one. Keep your eye (and mind) on your objective. There are many steps to be mastered along the way to becoming a PUA. It's good to celebrate your successes along the way. But let that success be a marker along the greater path to your ultimate goal. Keep working on your skills, working on your sticking points, blowing through your barriers, and you WILL achieve the results you desire.

Good luck.

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Become a Zen PUA: "The Zen of Meeting Women"
http://zenpua.com

In Mystery's words as you say there is no "kiss close." It's not a close, there is only one close, and that's an "F-Close." To backup what you said it's great to celebrate your success but keep in mind your objective.

Great Post

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

but surely though if all you're interested in is getting numbers or kissing, it's a close?

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REBORN

Unless you're publishing your own phone book, I can't imagine why getting phone numbers would be your ultimate goal.

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Become a Zen PUA: "The Zen of Meeting Women"
http://zenpua.com

not your only goal, but your only goal that night. there's been plenty times i've gone out looking to number close or k-close just because i didn't wanna f-close, for example if i have work the next day, if i've gotta b up early, etc. And generally if i wanna day 2, i dont wanna have f-closed her b4 i do

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REBORN

Then it's not your ultimate goal. If I need to change the oil in my car, and I go out and buy the oil, set it on a shelf in my garage, and leave it there, I've accomplished nothing. But if I keep my ultimate goal in mind (change the oil) when i see that oil sitting there I'll think, ok, what's the next step, what else do I need to do to accomplish my goal?

Buying the oil was a step in the process, leading to the ultimate goal of changing the oil.

So if you want to get your oil changed gents, get busy.

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Become a Zen PUA: "The Zen of Meeting Women"
http://zenpua.com

but who's to say obtaining your ultimate goal is closing? The aim of the game is to build attraction, k-closes and #-closes show a girl is attracted to you just as much as an f-close in my book.

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REBORN

I'm confused about the position you're taking, perhaps we aren't using these words to mean the same thing.

The main point I'm making is you need to know where you're going and how to get there if you ever hope to get there. If your objective is to meet great women, then you're not done when you get a phone number, that's just a step along the way.

If a salesman says he closed a deal, that doesn't mean he got the phone number of a potential buyer. It means the contracts are signed, the deal is done. He achieved his ultimate objective. To me, that's closing.

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Become a Zen PUA: "The Zen of Meeting Women"
http://zenpua.com

I see both sides of this one! Okay, to some PUAs the close for that evening might be a kiss close because you don't have the time or for some other reason can't go further. Now, on one hand it's good because it's a push-pull technique leaving her wanting more if you kiss-close get a number and talk to her later.

ON the other side of the fence. I see what Zen is getting at. In the mystery method the only real close it a f-close. And that is a way to close to start a relationship with a girl. If you don't give a girl what she wants and escalate properly you could quickly end up in LJBF zone. That's why Mystery says an f-close is the only close.

When Mystery teaches his method he says, "You came to me not for Mastery but for profeciency! However, there can be no in between either you are in AFC Land or you're a Master PUA!" Pickup mastery is about getting the girl with trackable consistency. 5 -for -5. Meet 5 women, lead 5 women into seduction. That's PUA Mastery accord to Mystery.

That is where Zen is coming from Slick_Uk. I hope this helps you both understand. I think you were more or less saying the same thing. I think that Slick is saying that some evening that may be as far as you can go.

If I'm wrong please correct me.

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

yeah for sure i get that. but when we say close were not talkin about ultimate closes. The car dealership example is a good one, but what if one dealer views a close as just selling a car, when the other views it as selling a car, plus a furry dice, air freshner, blah blah etc

Perception of closing is down to the individual and i totally understand where Zen's coming from.

Guess it's also cos i havent read Mystery Method!

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REBORN

I see your point, and I sold cars for 4 years. The sales managers see the close point when they sign up in the finance office. The manufacturer says its not until you've shown them how to use it, washed it, gassed it up, and wave to them as they drive over the curb.

I truely see your points!

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

It would be worth reading, if for no other reason than to quote to me the hundreds of times he discusses kiss closing, the quote above notwithstanding.

Jsmooth, your point about different ideas of when the close occurs meshes with mine perfectly. You decide for yourself what your ultimate objective is. Plot a course, stay the course, and you'll get to that objective, whether it's signing on the dotted line or waving as they go barreling over the curb in reverse.

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Become a Zen PUA: "The Zen of Meeting Women"
http://zenpua.com

Zen, well I know what my objective is tonight baby! There is no doubt in my mind, I'm going for the F-Close. It's my birthday weekend and someone's gonna get lucky in this city, and damn't its gonna be me. Either tonight or tomorrow, the game is on!

Wish me Luck Fellas

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

No, it's going to be whoever you pick up.

yup! suprised u said that smooth! remember you are the prize, luck is for AFCs!

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REBORN