As I mentioned in my introduction post over in the new guy forum...
I got into this scene a month ago. I went out about 4 times the first week, twice the second, none the third, and once the fourth. I'm quickly realizing that, well, I absolutely hate going out.

I have a couple problems with it. The biggest issue is that I have a very soft voice. I've tried a couple things to strengthen it, but nothing works. I'm thinking I'll take up singing lessons sometime in the next month to see if that improves it at all. The problem with it is that, well, if I'm in a club no one can hear me, even if I scream into their ear...hell, I can't even hear myself.

The next issue is that I'm very low energy. Most of my jokes fall flat because the people I'm talking to don't realize I'm joking. For example, people think I'm being serious when I go into a store and ask for a job application to wear a pink dress and stand outside it greeting people. (I'm a guy, in case it wasn't clear)

The last major issue is that the more I go out, the less I find I respect people. They can't accept who I am, which is slightly weird, slightly creepy, but ultimately harmless. Weird/creepy because I'm too slow at conversing...I can easily hold a 1-1 conversation, but if you throw a third person in there, well, it moves too quickly for me to process. I need a good second or two to think over what someone said and develop a response...there just isn't the time with three people. So I end up being a little on the weird side by just kinda sitting there doing nothing.

That said...I definitely do not have any problem approaching people...Hell, I went up to a 6 set (1 guy 5 girls) and said "my friends over here were wondering if you guys were lesbians" (the truth, I ran into a coworker and he was wondering). The reason is that, well, I just don't give a shit. I'll go up to anyone and open with anything...I have no approach anxiety.

I also don't have any problem with peacocking/style. I used to, but that was fixed in the first week. I've been going out with a cheap white fedora that gets people looking at me and kinda laughing. When I notice they're laughing at me, I open them (guy or girl). Or they'll say "nice hat"...I open that one too.

Welcome to the forum Yillan.

Well, you do have to realize that there are certain social norms that even us PUA's have to follow, in order to make people comfortable. If you make someone think that you are creepy, that's something that will happen regardless of whether you're involved in this community or not.

Also, the joke you outlined about the job application, I'm sure some will think it's funny, but it doesn't sound funny to me either, so I can understand if the people in the store didn't laugh. We all have a different sense of humor. Sometimes people find me hilarious. Most of the time they don't. Comedy is not my strong point.

If you don't like the clubs, then find another venue to go to. Try bars, or focus on day game. The thing with clubs is that their is a concentration of girls in there and most of them are LOOKING . . .

But, if that doesn't work for you then focus on day game. Don't go out just to sarge either. Go out to take care of normal stuff. Then, open girls while you're already out.

As far as the weak voice, that's something you will need to work on, just for daily life, aside from pick up. You should try pushing your voice out with your diaphram.

Now, the low energy problem . . . you may be able to fix some of that with your diet. Believe me, your diet makes a big difference. Also, the thoughts that you think.

It boils down to one thing . . . you HAVE to be willing to change. Whether it's for pick up or for daily life, being willing to change will only help you.

Usually, people can't hear others in the club because their voices are too high. You have to take under the music and buzz...in a lower tone.

I think I come off as creepy to some people. Mostly it's just a little weird. One person I knew described me as a "weird guy with a sense of honor". I haven't had any problems with people accepting me after I get to know them...it's just in that really early "why are you talking to me" stage that I have issues. How would you suggest I develop a quicker wit? As I mentioned before, I'm fine talking 1-1, but once there are three or more people the conversation just moves too quickly for me to follow. Everyone will be on topic 2 and I'll have just thought of what I wanted to say about topic 1. Or I'll completely miss my chance to talk. I'll be listening for any kind of natural break to say something and, as soon as I notice one, it gets filled by someone else. I have to cut someone off to say something about a topic that's already past...


As for my voice....Well, I've tried pushing it out more with my diaphragm. It hasn't worked. I can feel my voice in my chest/throat and it still comes out at a volume where I can't hear myself. It's almost like my voice has zero resonance. I'm hoping that singing lessons will help me figure out what I need to do to strengthen it.

I thought I was willing to change...I think I realize now that I'm willing to change but I don't want to. I want to be the person in the shadows, watching, supporting someone else. I don't want to be the center of a group, but I want to be included. I also want an attractive girlfriend. Unfortunately, my desires are in conflict, and trying to be the center of a group (or trying to be high energy) is starting to wear on me. I'm losing interest in going out.

As for joking, well, yes, I'm fully aware that my sense of humor won't mesh with everyone...my point was that the people there thought I was serious, instead of just cracking a lame joke. This happens all the time...a friend at a club told the waitress to give me a hard time about sitting where I was. She went over and said "This is the $100 champaign chair". I tried joking with her a bit, but she thought I believed her. She apologized, said my friend said to give me a hard time, and that I could stay where I was.

Well, there's a HUGE step, in that you're being honest with yourself. You are willing to change, but don't want to. You want an attractive g/f, but don't want to be the center of attention of the group. Well, in order for that to happen, most of the time, you will need to find a group that has a 10 as the center of attention, so that her friends are probably 8's and 9's. That way, you MAY be able to target an 8 or 9, without being the focus of the group. It may not work either, but that's probably your best bet on that one. Occassionally you'll find a very attractive girl that likes to stay in the shadows, but not very often. Usually, they make themselves attractive to NOT stay in the shadows.

LOL, with my girl, she is attractive, and makes herself more attractive, but she's one of those rare girls that DOESN'T want to be the center of attention even after she's made herself up. The problem she has is she DOES get the attention of the guys around her when she makes herself up and goes out. And no, I don't get jealous about it. LOL, she's the one that has the problem with that, not me. But, at the same time, she at least admits that she gets a boost from it, even though a part of her is uncomfortable about it.

Basically, for you to find a girl like that, the most likely scenario is to find a girl that has POTENTIAL to be hot, but doesn't know it. She was the ugly one in school, and her natural beauty is lurking underneath the surface, in which case, even a shy guy, or "different" guy socially, could have an excellent shot at getting a hold of her.

But, if you want to just go out and pick up some attractive girl in a social setting, you'll definitely have to be willing to be the focal center. You will have to be the center of the group. You will have to get comfortable having the girls and guys looking at you as a leader. Because that's what will attract the highly attractive girls to you. That's just the way those social interactions work.

As for your joke seeming lame, and people thinking you're being serious, yep, I could see that.

And . . . "a weird guy with a sense of honor"? Did you mean to say honor? If so, cool. Just wondering.

Yeah, those initial moments of the convo after opening are the CRITICAL moments. So, if you screw those up, uh oh.

My suggestions would be to not take every word that people say and process it, but pick out the overall concepts and the keywords they say. You can pick out a keyword here and there and throw that back out in a split second, purposely taking it the wrong way, with a cocky smile, or a wry grin, or something like that, and make it into a joke. Or, make it into a neg. Me and Rye Lee on the forum and Trivial on the forum do that stuff to each other a lot. Of course, they can't literally see my body language, but they still know how I mean it to come across. You do the same thing with girls.

Work on that. Yes, it will take some practice, but work on it. Just pick out the key words here and there and the overall concepts. Your brain will work faster that way, or should work faster anyway, allowing you to keep up with what's going on. That's also a technique you can use to keep an interesting convo going between more than one person other than yourself.

Practice makes perfect my friend. Thats the #1 way to improve. Also I'd look on you tube or get DVD's of standup comics... any popular comedians will do... watch many diffrent popular comedians until you find a couple you really think are hilarious... then start atching those particular ones... but this time paying attention to the WAY they deliver thier jokes... body language, tonality, inflection... Most comedian's are primarly funny because of thier delivery even more then thier jokes. Once you have paid attention to the way they deliver, start trying to mimic some of there jokes... try to deliver a joke of theres just like they would... and then credit the comedian. If they laugh and say "I love Dane Cook" or who ever say that he's one of your favorites, and do a little bit more of his material. If she doesn't say anything about the comedian when you do one of his jokes ask is shes seen that comedian... if she says no tell her enthusiastically about his performances and if she laughed at the first joke do some more of his material.

Yeah, I did mean to say honor. Basically, the point I was trying to make was that after someone gets to know me they're cool with me. The last girl I was with said she felt completely comfortable around me, and that was strange, because she's never that comfortable.

So what happened to that girl?

We lost contact. I wasn't all that attracted to her in the first place, but I figured I'd give it a shot and see where it went. I started a new job which didn't match up with her schedule (she worked nights and weekends, I worked normal hours/days) and that was the beginning of the end. She wanted to get together over this last halloween, but then changed her mind at the last minute saying she was visiting some people in another state. Then she was sick the next week...After that I said 'call me sometime' and left it at that.

ooooo, she's gone.

Well, time to move on. work on getting yourself better socially then.

[quote="L.A. Tripp"]ooooo, she's gone.

Well, time to move on. work on getting yourself better socially then.[/quote]
Yep. That was when I met up with a couple other guys and started going out sarging. The first night out I was in a t-shirt, leather jacket (leather sport coat? buttons and collar of a sport coat but was leather), khakis, and sneakers. We went around the mall chatting with hired guns.

Next night I replaced the tshirt with a mock turtle neck. I got constantly compared to Andy Warhol, and the guys I was out with used my 'lack' of style as an opener. "I'm trying to help my friend over here improve his look, what do you think..."

The next night I replaced the sneakers with dress shoes, and the shirt with a white button down with cufflinks. I also added the fedora I mentioned. I plan on throwing a black vest in there sometime, along with a few rings that match the colors (the fedora is white with a black band around it).

Though, I must say that this opener worked amazingly well:
"Hey, my friends and I made a bet that I couldn't pull off an all white outfit. I had to add a white hat in order to keep black shoes and a black jacket...What kind of hat do you think would go with it?"

Most of the time they either said "That sounds like fun", or "I could never do that".

Good start. Keep it up.

I can help you with your voice problem. I used to speak in a pretty soft voice too, forcing me to yell in clubs just so people could hear me. I got this information off of a website, and it helped me alot.

First, volume level should not be confused with projection. To project the voice, don't try to yell or force it out of your body. This causes strain. To have a voice that carries well, you must use your body's natural resonators.

Your body has three resonating cavities: the voice box, the mouth and the nose. The voice is produced at the vocal chords and then amplified in the facial mask around the lips and nose. To have a beautiful voice and project it without strain, you must focus your voice in the facial mask, blending the oral and nasal resonators.

The simplest way to find your facial mask is to hum. ( you know, HMMMMMMMM). Now practice alternating humming and speaking. HMMMMMMy name is Chris. HMMMMMy favorite color is blue. HMMMMany people say I'm a great dancer... etc. Have fun with it. Practice humming and speaking throughout the day. Once you get the hang of what a resonant voice feels like, you can drop the hum and feel the vibration of your words in your facial mask.

Again, practice makes perfect. chances are you, like me, grew up as the strong, silent type and thus your vocal chords are unfamiliar with using your resonators.

The creepy/weird part you still need to work on though. Remember: you are what you convey.

Thanks for the tips and responses.

I can feel my voice in any combination of my throat, nose, and chest that I choose. I've tried humming in the past, and, well, my hum is basically silent too, though it did help me learn to control where my voice was coming from.

I'm thinking if singing doesn't work out I'll have to buy myself a little mic and speaker and walk around with that all day ;). That or talk to a doctor to see if there's a medical reason why my voice doesn't carry.

And yeah, I was the strong silent type. From as early as I can remember...plus there was some positive feedback going going on: When I spoke people listened, because me speaking was such a rare event.

I also think that part of the reason I have trouble in conversations involving 3+ people is that I've spent a lot of time conversing online. When I'm online I have the extra few seconds I need to process what's being said...and it doesn't seem weird that I'm responding to something that was said a bit ago, due to typing time and such.

One think you could look into with your problem of keeping up with conversations is taking some improv acting classes. It might help you develop quicker processing and response times. Also, maybe it would give you an idea of how to better deliver your humor so people know you're joking with them.