Alright guys, I'm confused and I really need your help here.

Same girl that I mentioned in the smoker thread. Absolute 10. I sit back and watch guys make lame, nervous passes at her CONSTANTLY. I did the same thing, but managed to recover with some DHV'ing, negging, a well-timed freeze out or two etc.

And here's where I am now. She likes me, but she's nervous about showing it and is too uncomfortable to take the first step. If *I* take a step towards her...like sending her an IM out of the blue or walking by her, she'll take two steps towards me...usually by striking up the conversation and asking me all kinds of questions along with giggling and sending me all kinds of girly smiley faces. Or by striking up the conversation in person and watching me the whole time as I approach her.

But of course, and this is understandable, she obviously isn't sure how I feel about her...and she's too nervous to take any step of her own unless I initiate it. When we left work tonight (we're both temps so this isn't a full-time office screwing around thing)...we were in a group, but she specifically found my eyes and looked at only me when we were saying our generic group goodbyes.

So what should I do here? I feel like I should push more, but I don't want to fall into AFC mode here again (which it's hard not to do because she's sooooooooo f-ing pretty, seriously)...but I'm a bit worried about her being too scared to come back for me if I pull away completely. The first time I froze her out, she approached me and forced a conversation, to the point that she was even mirroring the way I speak. And that went well...but the second time I had to do it...I gamed some other girls in front of her...she couldn't leave at the same time I did...and she just gave me this PIERCING, hurt look on the way out.

If you need any more information...I will provide it. There's probably something obvious I'm missing, as I am new to this. But I really, really don't want to screw this up. Any help you can provide is MUCH appreciated.

Time to ask her to hang out!!!!!

my friends and i are going to balh blah blah going to have loads of fun with the blah blah blah. (then ask later) you should come

or i need to get something at the mall and needs a girls opinion you are going to help me

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Perception is Reality

That's what I was thinking. It's a tough step to take though because EVERYBODY asks for her number and asks her out. Seriously, on the way home tonight another guy stopped her and tried it. (I don't know exactly was said because I was walking away pretending not to notice, but I know there were some uncomfortable words exchanged then she waved goodbye and caught up to us).

I guess I just need to find a smooth transition into it...

Then go with the mall one and start it off with i noticed you have a little bit of fashion sence and I need a new blah blah and you are going to come help me get one! ... you are not directly hitting on her just telling her that you need a girls opinion and she going to come because you said so.

You are the prize and if you have the confidence when asking, she wont say no!

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Perception is Reality

I like this mall suggestion. I do have to do some Christmas shopping. I admit it, I don't have the balls to just say "you're coming with me." But what does make sense is for me to mention that I have to do some Christmas shopping this weekend and I don't know what to buy my relatives. And I guess I have to go alone...knowing her...and the way she will always keep a conversation going wtih me...she'll just ask me about the last thing I said...so she'll probably reply "why do you have to go alone?"...which might give me an opening to just say "Well I don't have to I guess...but I can't take any family members cuz I'm shopping for them" Then I can ask what she's doing and we might be able to finally set something up.

Do you ever get the feeling when you're contemplating something like this that maybe somehow you got it ALL wrong and she secretly hates you or considers you a creep and is just being polite or that she's overly friendly and giggly to everyone and you just misinterpreted it...or that she thinks you're a murderous psychopath and she was just sayinhg what she thought you wanted to hear so you didn't carve her up?

Er...

The problem is you are thinking to much... if things get messed up with this girl then you will learned for the next one. I would suggest saying your coming with me because girls want someone to follow you need to be the leader.

But if you are not confident enough for that then try to get her to invite herself if you think that will work.

Good luck and believe that she wants you and don't over think!

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Perception is Reality

First what i found out is if you think that, then she will sniff you out like a dog and smell your fear.

Second ive tried some things before telling women to do something with me without really asking. I just tell them they are going. One time a girl said you didn't ask. Not a big a deal cause then i asked and she came. So really it shouldn't hurt you if you just tell her to come with you. Or if you want just say something like "im going to mall, you should come with and help me pick out some christmas gifts."

Like trivial said you could always have her invite herself. But i found if your forward and confident in yourself she won't say no. Forget about rejection. Forget about the other guys. Just worry about yourself.

"I'm going to the mall to pick out some winter clothes. You
can tag along if you want. I can always use a female opinion"

Something like this isn't asking her out or even asking her to
come. It's not even asking. That's what I love about the open invitation.

Pretty much, if it's anything other than a straight out "No",
you should be in good shape.

Just be detached from the outcome.

Whatever she says just don't react strongly to it.

wow didnt realize it but used the mall line in the past. what i said was

"ugh i hate christmas shopping"(don't use this line its bad but i said it)
"Aww why"
"I wanted to get my little sis something but im kinda lost"
"OOooo do you need help?"
"Was gonna go with my friends but sure"
"Lets go friday i get off class at..."

Great suggestion.

She pulled her usual stuff today...I did the work of talking to her, but I got tired of it about midway through the day and stopped talking to her and she didn't say anything else to me. Just pulled some weird body language sh-t when we were leaving, trying to slow down so I'd catch up to or something, then walking away when I didn't. I'm getting a little tired of having to read her signals (she obviously never had to show anyone she likes them before in her life)...and I don't like the situation of me having to do everything. Tomorrow I'm either freezing her out or negging her directly and seeing what happens. Probably a direct neg because I haven't really done that yet and I still think her ego is a little inflated expecting me to do all the work.

Sly here, I am kind of OCD and I have struggled with doubt, and over-thinking stuff to. This girl appears to be sending you all kinds of signals. In my opinion either use the open-ended invit. or just say "blah blah blah, go with me". With the body language, don't let her control you. Do what you want, and let her react to it. Personally, I think you got this one. Sly out.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think I pretty much always have second thoughts in these situations. Let's just say I have a very vivid imagination and I can foresee the exact moment when you ask the question and get that "what the hell?" look from her. It's not a good feeling. But I guess by the same token, it comes down to just being prepared for a no...and I think if you're prepared for it you can be confident either way....I think...
Thank you for this advice...I think that's a good idea and that's basically what I decided. 50% of what she's doing depends on what I'm doing...so part of her inconsistency is probably MY inconsistency, and if I just straightened up and got more confident, she probably would also...which would make things easier.

There's a girl that I've been talking with and when I was hanging out with her in person, she was acting very interested. I got her msn and every time we talk, she sounds interested, yet she hasn't initiated a single conversation, its been about a month and I've initiated 4 or 5. Finally what I ended up doing was not saying anything to her for about a week, then after starting up a conversation, I told her flat out that I don't like it when I'm the only one initiating things and that she was going to have to start conversations from now on, or she probably wouldn't be hearing from me. She didn't understand why I was saying this at first and she told me how she only starts conversations with one other person because she doesn't really know what to say. I told her that that's no excuse and that she can just talk to me about whatever interesting things come up, because if she doesn't start conversations, then I'm going to think she doesn't like talking to me, so I'll just stop. She swore she would start instigating conversations after that. I'd suggest a smiliar approach, be straight forward.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Good news!

I had to purposefully piss her off one day (see: my thread titled about apologizing for negging behavior), but that let me see the way she acts when she WANTS someone to know she doesn't like them...so I could compare that to the way she acts to me normally, and I finally figured her out.

Naturally, now that I am confident that she likes me and is only hesitant because she's worried that I might blow her off, I'm doing MUCH better. My confidence is naturally returning...I even told her to giggle for me yesterday and she did it happily. She also showed a big IOI in that she got REALLY energetic during and after our conversation. Of course, the adrenaline rush being a sign of talking to someone you like.

I'll help her get over her fear of me not returning her glances by telling her to be sure she gets my attention and says goodbye when she leaves.
Good idea. I figured out that her "comfort zone" is having guys go crazy and pursue her like mad...which is why she's so hesitant to show interest in me but so comfortable and eager when it comes to keeping things going once I approach her. The "mating dance" for her is obviously just allowing a guy to keep talking to her until he builds up the confidence to ask her out.

Anyway, I think part of the reason that she likes me is because I have not "broken" and turned into an AFC or lapdog around her. Ironically because at first I figured it wasn't worth the effort to even try to pick her up. She still does much better when I take the lead and initiate, but I'm not weak about it. I'm not a bad-looking guy by any stretch, but I'm amazed that a girl this beautiful is starting to react to me this way.

Thanks guys!!