I haven't been here for a long while, I thought I had all my shit worked out.

Thanks for reading this in advance; I'm still feeling it, so it's gonna be long.

Met a girl via online dating. Had an awesome first date, chemistry, compatibility off the fucking charts. Go in for a kiss at the end. She says she's not that kind of girl, but has given me all the signals. She's 23, been around the block, called herself a pervert during the date, but wouldn't elaborate. Fine, I think, she's been used by men a lot and now she wants a dude to treat her the old fashioned way. I'm down because we really click.

Next date, pool hall. Massive amounts of PDA, but still no kissing, sucking on ears, biting her neck, lots of standing together with our bodies pressed close in public. Rainy night, pull her into a doorway and she gives into a good make out. Roam the streets, lots of kissing, drop her off at her car. I should mention on the first date I suggested we go to my house to watch a movie and I brought it up a couple more times on the second date. We make plans to see each other the following Thurs.

She texts me day before and flakes out, says she double booked. I call her later and she sounds genuinely interested in rescheduling, so we reserve Sunday, no official plans. Today she texts me to confirm. I ask her, "what's the plan?" She says (over text), "Just so you know, I'm not interested in having sex at this point in my life." I'm like, 'the fuck that come from? We were on track like a freight train. I text back, "Why is that? STD?" (I dated a girl that acted a lot like this, super sexually interested, but kept making excuses not to go for it. She had had herpes).

Obviously, she gets a little pissed. "That's not the only reason I wouldn't want to have sex. I don't want to have sex with you, so we should cut our losses (This is NOT how she's been acting)." At this point, I do a couple stupid things. I ask her to just tell me what's really going on. No response; I call her a few minutes later (this is no longer a conversation for text), no answer. I text 30 min later inviting her to have talk about our future over dinner Sunday. I am now a needy bitch.

And there we are. A friend of mine agrees there's definitely something up with her to be so resistant to sex when she's clearly interested. She just got out of a 2 year relationship with a drug addict, so I think she's scared of getting close (my heart was really into this, hers too I'm pretty sure) and that puts her at higher risk for an STD, too. My friend suggested calling her tomorrow and proposing marriage, tongue in cheek, because she's so moral about sex. Since she probably won't answer, I was thinking about leaving her a voicemail saying I wanted to ask her to be my gf over dinner, but she's not talking to me so I have to do it like that. I felt that confident before she started getting wierded out and I think that will help her understand I'm not just interested in her for sex.

Anyway, it's probably game over, but I feel better getting it off my chest.

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31 and still figuring it out.

sounds like your game is tight

i think she is probably defensive and worried because of her past relationship

her "plans" included not getting hurt again

yet, you are doing everything right and really building tension/escalating

and she doesn't know how to react to it

she knows if things continued as they were,

that you were eventually (sooner, rather than later) going to bang her

so she freaked

i see it as a compliment to your game

don't blow it

she may come back around?

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Yeah, she knows what's up. But usually a girl will go along with it and come back to my place. I have a feeling if I ask her to be my girlfriend, I'll get this bs again: girlfriend-doesnt-want-me-to-pressure-h ... highlight= This new girl gave me the same kind of vibe as that last one, which is why I outright asked about STD's. She will make excuses not to come over, become resentful if I lock her down I think.

You get a lot of girls that look good on the surface in online dating...

I think I'll put all my cards on the table tomorrow and give her one last chance, but she is super blowing it now.

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31 and still figuring it out.

also don't "ask a girl to be your girlfriend"

that's so sixth grade

but if you must, make sure to get her a charm bracelet, a box of russell stover chocolates, and a note that says "will you be my steady? YES? or NO?"

(with little boxes for her to check)

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Red flag
You should've made the plans, not ask her what the plans were. Alpha.
Shit test.
And you failed it.

Seriously? You asked her if she had an STD over txt? What did you expect her to reply? "Yeah, I have ghsv-2"

You should've disqualified her. "Me neither, I just don't see you that way" She would've replied "What?! What do you mean?" and you could've replied with "it's complicated. I'll pick u up at 8"

You're the price. Be mysterious. Your goal was to get her to your place. Once there, and after a couple of drinks, you know you would've ended up banging her.
Shit test #2
And you failed it, this time in a VERY beta way.

Seriously, a conversation about your future with this girl you still haven't slept with?

I don't think there was any good way of coming back after your STD txt.
Red flag #2
Why the fuck do you keep talking about STD's?
Please don't do this.
It probably is. Your best bet is to forget about her for at least a week. No calls, no txts. Come back here in a week to tell me what's happened during that time.

freeze out ...

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AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

Put two and two together she was probably on drugs herself probably snorted a little coke and smoked some weed from time to time. If you're not supplying her with it then you're really not of much use to her. I briefly dated a girl like that they either want to know if you have access to drugs or they want a guy who's going to abuse them as in literally choke the shit out of them every now and then. Once you discover that type of infomation about a girl past relationships its best to try to drop those panties as fast as possible. If your not that type of guy don't count on it lasting long. If she's able to hang out with a drug addict for 2 years she's a loser herself


Your friends an idiot and your idiot if you listen to him. You're being really needy towards this girl know after she just told you all that you really think asking her to be your girlfriend will won't she doesn't want a relationship.

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Why are you guys so rabid? I remember when I used to be a dick when I was posting advice; it just made people ignore me. I like reviewing my old posts, it's easy to see how I'm happier now. You guys all make some good points, though. Though RP's red flags aren't mine and being co-dependent with a drug user doesn't necessarily make someone a user or an addict themselves.

Anyway, I had plenty of time to mull this over at work. While telling her I want her to be my girlfriend might get her attention, like it did with the other girl last year that was exactly like her, I'm still kind of pissed by how shitty THAT relationship was. She's not worth the aggravation.

"I'm at a point in my life where I'm not having sex anymore" is not a shit test, it's not "I'm not having sex with you." To me, that is a red flag. If a girl declares she's not having sex AT ALL in the 21st century, that means something big is up. Rape, used up, or STD. I know a girl who has a muscular disorder that makes sex PAINFUL and she still likes to have sex. Something real bad had to happen to this one, especially how experienced she obviously was.

Maybe I could have seduced her by "tricking" her into going back to my place, but she would have just resented me for it. It's not really talked about, but there are girls that go out of their way not to be alone with you and will blue ball you for eternity, even if they like you. And the fact remains, I did not put any pressure on her. I didn't say, "lets go to my house a fuck like animals", I didn't say, "damn, I am going to hella work you over, girl", I never groped her tits, crotch, or ass, since we were always in public and I didn't want to objectify her. The "pressure" to have sex came from her own suspicious mind, I have my needs taken care of; I'm in no rush.

If someone asks me if I have an STD, because I don't, I say "No." I don't say, "there's other reasons I avoid sex", and then get moody and stop talking to the person. Being involved with an intravenous drug user puts you at high risk for AIDS, herpes, and hepatitis. Still, I shouldn't have asked like that even though I thought it would be less confrontational, she might have told me with a little prodding.

And the shittiest red flag of all, she wanted to break things off over text message. This girl has a lot of chaos and if these are shit tests, she gets off on stirring me up. Not relationship material and since I'm currently having sex, I don't need her at all. Also, I'm a great communicator, if a girl can't have a PHONE conversation about an issue and is too threatened to hear my side before making decisions that impact both of us, that's a problem for me. Fact is, she would not respond to texts or call me back to just talk.

I deleted all her contact information, she's done. Bottom line, I did this shitty relationship before and while the chemistry and heat are ON POINT, she has some serious flaws that make it not worth it.

P.S. my friend is not an idiot, she just knows that it's better to appeal to a girl's emotions than logic, especially when screwed in the head a bit. Don't underestimate the comfort power of telling a girl you want her to be your girlfriend. Takes out her suspicion that you just want her for sex and you're screwing other girls and you're just going to ditch her after sex. It's a small, non-binding commitment if you really want to focus on 1 girl. Only use it when you feel like you mean it, don't manipulate girls with it.

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31 and still figuring it out.

i read the other responses,

i didn't see anything i would think of as rabid.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Taking advice from a woman about another women will be your downfall they don't know what the hell the want. You are violating Rule #1 and that rule is "It doesn't matter what the woman thinks." You're worrying about whether she's going to feel used and how she'll feel if you ditch her let her worry about that, feeling used might not even be her real issue with you. It's not your job to worrying about whats going through her head because when you start trying to think for the woman, what you're thinking is most likely wrong. Just worry about your thoughts you can't control or begin to guess anyone's thoughts. This girl in question has been fucked several times frontwards and backwards by many men in her life. You talk about not being manipulative well taking her out on those dates when you just wanted to get in her pants was being manipulative.

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I didn't cater my behavior to her perceived hang ups at all. I was me, aggressive, but not disrespectful, forceful, but not untrustworthy. Oh my god. What a horrible, misogynist rule to live by. It's okay to think of a woman as a whole person, with an intact intellect. Women do largely know what they want and when they cut you off, it's usually because they see a piece of the puzzle that you don't (around my age anyway). It's the girls with screwed up histories and father figures (like this one) that tend to be unreliable about getting something healthy for themselves. Also, I never said I wanted to just get in her pants; it looks like you and she would get along well.

You guys aren't being rabid, I mean, it's easy to make your point without calling people that know more about the situation names and saying fuck all the time. Now I'm going to be accused of being a feminist.

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31 and still figuring it out.

yes, it is. Anytime a girl says she's not having sex, no matter the reason, it's a shit test.
That's not a red flag. That's also a shit test.
Maybe, or maybe it's just a shit test. Did you really expect her to say "yeah, I'm having sex with you tonight. What do you want me to wear?" She's 23, dude.
Exactly. Meaning her txt = shit test.
Nope. Shit test.

If something bad had happened to her, she wouldn't have announced she wasn't gonna have sex with you over txt.
You trying to sleep with this woman or marrying her?
You should have.
You should have.
You're a man, not a chick.
Break what off? You haven't even slept with this girl, dude. You two are not a thing.
Ummmm, they all do.
If that's truly the case, she will come back to you within two weeks and beg for your cock.
Maybe in high school.
I'll let you in on a little secret, that is exactly what turn girls on, the fact that you're a player and have options. It's called being Alpha. They can't control it.

Like I said, you fucked it up with your answer to her shit test. You were on your way to getting laid.

Your goal should be to get inside a girl's pants as quickly as possible, no matter if you just want to fuck her or if you want to marry her.
I guess you're talking to me, then. Whatever, dude. Just trying to be helpful. If you don't like my fuck's then I'm sorry if I offended you.

I immediately remember why I take time off of this place. You guys all talk about how EVERY single women is the same, they all want to be dominated, they all want to be told what to do, if they say they don't want to have sex (I agree if a girl says "I don't want to have sex with you," she's already thinking about it), it MUST just be a test. I'm not going to argue with you guys because I know it's like fighting the surf. You guys have your opinions, and I agree that I prefer to have sex before any kind of commitment and it usually happens around the 2nd date. That's not always the best way. Lets not argue, because we're all set in our mindsets at the moment.

But let me play devil's advocate. Most of you think women don't know what they want. Because women are physically weaker, they can't be as direct. Example, dude cuts in front of another guy at a movie premier, guy might say, "I don't think so" and push him out of line. A majority of girls would say something loud to their friend like, "Don't you hate it when some jerk cuts in line?" A girl will make an emotional appeal, try to use guilt, etc. By nature, by necessity, girls are more socially skilled and it stands to reason they are better at manipulating us than vice versa. A typical girl cannot use her brute strength to fight off a rapist, she has to use her social intelligence to talk him out of it or avoid the situation.

If men entirely ruled the earth, we'd have a rampant nation of free sex and prostitution, why would we give women any freedoms at all? Especially if you believe a woman can't think properly and doesn't know what she wants. Wouldn't it be better to enslave them and give them degrading roles in society, janitors, sex workers, garbage truck drivers. It seems to me, if women really didn't know what they wanted, we'd have a cheap, plentiful, work/sex force.

It's entirely possible that women did not WANT to become subservient and actively manipulate men into giving equal shares of their power so we have something now roughly approaching equal. Doesn't it make sense, that if we men weren't so regularly clouded by the raw impulse to bury ourselves inside someone, we would make healthier social decisions? It seems to me, it would be easier to know what I want, that I would choose more appropriate mates if I didn't have that throbbing background hum of sexual desire constantly running in the background. Just observing this board as long as I have, I think it's the men that are genuinely confused. But honestly, if that's the way it really is, that's kind of scary, so I could see why we make these blanket statements about women to comfort ourselves, like they all adhere to some universal law of physics. I think the truth is that we are inherently manipulated by women so deeply that it's too threatening to admit it.

36% of children are born to single mothers worldwide, a majority of teachers are female. Who do you think is making the largest impact on the development on the world, who do you think is instilling our gender roles and sexual beliefs in us worldwide? Long story short, it's okay to believe a woman knows what she wants and that she has a pretty good idea how to get it.

But yeah, bitches be crazy.

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31 and still figuring it out.

Ugh. dont even know why i wasted my time responding. listen to yourself. trying to justify the actions of a mentally unstable whore who dated a junkie for 2 years. worst part is u want to have a ltr with her.

take some more time off.