They say nice guys finish last….

In many ways that’s true, especially professionally.

But in the dating game I disagree. Women-at least those who are 30+-want a guy who is nice and its no accident that generation after generation of men have fallen into the Wussy category while the seemingly bad boys run off with all the pussy. The problem with the ‘nice guy’, the stereotypical wuss-bag who falls over himself to always do right by her no matter what the cost, and to never say things to offend is that he does it all at his own expense. Not financial expense-we should all be prepared to spend on our women from time to time-but at the expense of his own needs and wants. He invariably conveys the message that ‘Your wellbeing is and will always be more important than mine. I am happy to be the doormat that you wipe your feet on, the emotional tampon you offload to every night for I know that in doing so I am being nice to you, never mind that subconsciously I always feel like a dick. Maybe they are related? Hmmm.’ He is VERY Nice, while unfortunately also very Weak. Yeah she wants a guy who listens, a guy who is there to help her in the tough times-but equally a guy who stands up for himself, who commands respect, who won’t tolerate being spoken down to.

I am a nice guy, one who over the years has had more than my fare share of ‘You’re a really nice person, just not the one for me.’ I have tried to be a prick, to push the bad boy image in the hope of getting better results but for me it just didn’t work. The result was always a woman I never meant to hurt, and me no closer to being wanted by women in general. Nowadays, I see all this differently. I am nice to the women I'm with. I look after her and don’t hurt her unless I feel I have been wronged or disrespected. I maintain a strong character and refer to myself and my own needs often when they may not be getting met. I do nice things for her and treat her as and when I choose.

On the flip side, a good friend who is probably the best with women of any of my mates has a natural arrogance with women. He would never be mistaken for the nice guy of the group. But this works for him too. Yeah he does all the nice things and treats his girlfriends often-but again-on his terms.

The moral of this story fellas is that you are what you are. Most of us are nice by nature, don’t run away from it. Be yourself and be nice, just do it in a way that doesn’t compromise your wants and values.

A nice guy, with the strength of character to compliment it can have all the pussy he desires.

Wrong. Nice Guys do finish last and fool themselves into thinking that being a "nice guy" is a good thing. Nice guys aren't really nice at all. They are secretive, manipulative, dishonest (with themselves as well as others), and weak.

Being a nice guy is a defense mechanism for weak men who are too afraid to be themselves.

Nice Guy Syndrome is essentially a mental disorder.

I highly recommend anyone who considers himself a "nice guy" to read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy," by Robert Glover. It is one of the best, most life-changing, books you'll ever read.

there is nothing wrong with being a good guy

a good guy has boundaries

a nice guy has not.... being a nice guy is terrible , it's stupid and it never works... only desperate older woman fuck nice guys...

this post hurts my eyes.. you totally use the wrong words...

there is nothing wrong with being sensitive and caring AS LONG it isn't obsessive and as long it's in your control...

nice guys often are the biggest manipulators out there.. they are being nice to get sex..they give flowers and hold the door open for girls... do you do the same for your best friend ? do you give him flowers ? do you tell him he looks hot ?

no you don't ... that means you aren't a nice guy otherwise you would be this kind of nice to everyone... it's mean you are a selective manipulator who use needy tactics to compensate his shortcomings in personality and his shitty perspective about female psychology.

i insult woman.. i make jokes about them.. i tell them straight on im going to fuck them and they tell me im a nice guy lol... It Looks great to be a nice guy .. it sounds great because you don't have to worry about shit anymore. WAKE THE FUCK UP IT DOESN"T WORK...

A nice guy, with the strength of character = a good guy
pua who needs to manipulate woman to get pussy = still a AFC idiot
a guy who manipulates woman by being nice = a advanced PUA .. advanced MPUA... he's a AFC MORON.

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Sid - your way off. Its about giving her what she wants so that she gives you what you want. What would you suggest as a manly non-manipulative approach, walking up to her while shes sittin on the couch grabbing her by the hair and dragging her to your room? (Im talking about a LTR here with a woman you value vs a SNL with a bird you don't. For a SNL then none of the nice-guy stuff applies.).

If you wanted a pay rise would you rock into your bosses office and instruct him to give that to you so as not to manipulate him in any way? Course not. You would lay the ground work and appear a model employee so that the pay rise seems natural and logical to him-same here.

The true 'nice-guy' hasnt got the strength to stand by what he wants and accepts the leftovers. What I am talking about here is you looking after her needs so that she looks after yours-and if she doesn't well you know what to do VS the nice guy who wouldnt move on. Surely that kind of reciprocal shit is what a relationship is all about?

Ive read 'No More Mr Nice Guy' btw and it is a damn good read-recommended.

Lode - very well said. A 'Good Guy' is the real name for what we should aim to be.

PS: I just read my original post above and it is pretty GAY, but the gyst of it holds true:
Dont see your good nature as a curse, see it as a quality but remember that your needs and wants take precedence no matter what in the longer term. We are men, STRENGTH is our gift.

That is the text book definition of manipulative.

If you have truly read "No More Mr. Nice Guy," then you have failed to grasp it's contents.

OK I see your train of thought and how that could be considered 'manipulative' in a sense. But thats life! We do that all the time, not just with women but with everyone we deal with every single day of our lives. Like my work pay rise example. Thats how social shit works! PLUS: isnt a relationship about give and take? You would have us believe shes just goin to open her legs for you for years (remember is said Long Term Relationship, not Same Night Lay) on end with nothing in return? I guess you could argue women manipulate us in the same way??? Like I said, basic social shit.

Being a 'Good' guy wih boundaries is fine. 'Nice' is not.

Your argument makes no sense.

No, not in a sense. It absolutely 100% is manipulation. Even your pay raise example is manipulation.

Of course there is give and take in a relationship, but there is a difference between give AND take, and give TO take.

In give and take, you give because you want to give. It's on your own terms. That's how a man does things.

In give to take, you give because you want something in return. It is not on your terms, it is manipulation. That is how "nice guys" do things, and it never works. They don't get what they expect or what they think they deserve in return, and they end up becoming resentful.

You don't have to give to get, but "nice guys" think they do. If you want something, all you have to do is ask for it. That includes your pay raise.

I'm going to call bullshit on you having ever read No More Mr. Nice Guy, because everything you are saying is the exact opposite of what Dr. Glover talked about. If you had read it, then my argument would make perfect sense to you.

Do yourself a really, really big favor and read it before you continue to sabotage your life and your relationships.

Classic.

Didnt I say that at the start 'giving as and when you choose' ie on your own terms? In that case wouldnt you be a 'Good' person for doing that? Back to my original post-being good (or 'nice', tho Im kinda getting away from that word now) is something to be proud of with women, not ashamed of.

Sid-give me some examples of things you might give to your missus on your terms, eg flowers, a dinner out etc... would you do that for your mates? Like the other guy said above: you wouldnt do that for your friends so why do it for her? We know why...

Both you guys are 100% right in each arguement. You two are just referring to different "nice guys" and I don't really want to eloborate.

Manipulative or not - its a pretty grey area, and missing the whole point of this thread. Anyhow, most people picked it up ok Im sure.

it's no more mr. niceguy for me.

i'm done with it.

this last relationship solidified that.

i dumped her ass.

because i stood up for my need to be respected.

and she wouldn't have any of it.

i didn't budge.

in my thirties, finally grew a set of balls.

well, actually, they sprouted a few years ago, when i threw my ex (of over ten years out of the house) on a saturday for cheating on me.

moved all of her shit onto the lawn.

then this last bitch, was a fucking psychotic lunatic borderline nutjob, totally manipulative fruitcake.

i tolerated her mindgames far too long in an endeavor to see if they were just shit tests.

i was painfully aware that in doing so, i was giving the appearance of "the nice guy" and i fear she started to perceive me that way.

in all actuality, i was just trying to keep an open mind because i know that people are different.

the lesson that i learned is that you must never fail shit tests, even if you think doing so will win you favor as an open-minded or "reasonable" person.

never fail them.

always. MOTHERFUCKING ALWAYS stand for your respect and values. above all else. never compromise your values or respect for a woman or for a piece of ass. never. that makes you "the nice guy".

be a good guy.

but only so long as she deserves it.

never abuse a woman. verbally. physically. emotionally. etc. even if she is abusive in some way.

just walk away. for good, if necessary.

this is part of being a man...always be a man.

i say - don't be a nice guy.

don't even be a good guy.

just be a motherfucking MAN.

period.

let her earn your time, respect, affection.

don't just freely give these things.

too many men are emotionally easy "emotional tampons", just lining up to be shit all over.

don't be that.

don't see women as friends or peers...they aren't.
don't project male traits such as death before dishonor onto women...they don't share these.

and realize, that EVERYONE is out for themselves above all others.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

you cannot be friends with a woman... all woman i knew did had self-interests .. it was attraction or attraction with barriers.

without those self-interest they weren't going to be friendly or whatever ..

i don't agree with the medieval image of court love and how woman need men and honour... woman just string guys along manipulating them, untill they run into a right thinking man who whoops their ass.

be the right thinking man... don't be the emotional tampon

i've taked to alot of girls .. putting them in the friendzone etc... i even killed attraction on purpose , what i've noticed is that all those girls did not want to be friends anymore... you have romantic interests or romantic interests with barriers.. frienship doesn't fucking exist ... if you do have good male or female friends just really appreciate them because good friendships are rare.

fun thing is ... woman never become friends and they never behave like one .. but once i fucked them , dumped them or whatever suddenly they talk about friendship and that kind of shit.if they have a boyfriend they act like friends but they runpassive aggresive shit on me giving me insane IOI...

im not saying woman aren't nice .. im just saying they have self interest and most of them are instinctive...

i say fuck that shit...... we can blame woman blabla all our life but that isn't getting us anywhere either

woman are just woman .. don't judge them .. just set up boundaries so you don't have to deal with all that shit - install a good trustworthy automatic pilot...

if you have a date.. just tell yourself .. im going to trust her completely , im going to trust myself and im going to trust the experience... if you do this, and she fucks up you can honestly say it's her fault. there is no need to shoot yourself in the foot.

trust someone with boundaries...

don't give trust without boundaries .. that's blind trust and self sabotage...

most guys rant about how bad woman are.. most people just suck , if you don't trust yourself of course you are going to blame other on how bad they are especally woman .. it's just you projecting your fucked up experiences ..

but it's wrong to project previous experiences on other people .. just set boundaries , thats much easier and it doesn't hold you back in social interactions

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

You've never treated a friend to dinner? I have.

No, I'm not going to buy a friend flowers, but I might buy them other things. If I buy a friend a drink when we go out, is it because I want something from them or just because I feel like being a decent guy and don't need anything in return?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying your gf or wife flowers, jewelry, dinner, etc. as long as it is for the right reasons. If it is to thank her for something, that's good. If it is simply because you want to put a smile on her face and don't need, want, or expect anything in return (besides maybe a 'thank you'), that's great.

But, if your reason for doing it is to buy her affections, try to make her like you more, and to get something (i.e. sex) in return, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. In this case you are being manipulative, it is an act of neediness and insecurity, and you will fail.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to help you. You have the wrong mindset, and I want you to understand so you don't sabotage yourself.

Well I appreciate the help dude, thats why I (we) are here. All I want when I do nice things for the missus (when a have one) is a heart felt thankyou. Something that was pretty damn scarce in my last relationship.

Youre not saving me from anything by the way. You misread the original post at the start and took this on a whole nother tangent... anyway, thanks for the input.