Me: You'r not that smart, aren't you? I want a smart girl!
HB: well i'm not smart, you don't have to love me. leave it like that, hate me :p (^%$#& what was that?)
Me: well that's for the best :p
HB: i had bad grades today :/
Me: Ooh you really aren't smart! (trying to flip the frame)
HB: hahaha, i told you i'm stupid. but really the teacher dind't gave me the grade i deserve.
Me: mmmm, as if you're smart and it's the teachers fault, i know where this is going, you bastard :p
HB: hahahha, noooo, i'm stupid and you're trying to flip my words! :p
Me: stop saying it, i'll end up believing it.
HB: hahahaha, you're the one that said i'm smart, i just said i'm stupid.
Me: No need to tell me that, it obvious :p

I don't have any clue where i stand right now.
ps: i've never tried to go into comfort zone, tuned attraction over phone and internet, our first meeting next saturday after she flaked last one (my fault, weak planning plus i told her i may be busy, and i was.)

_________________
Golden Rules i learned:
1- If you complement do it a serious way.
2- If a conversation starts with a low vibe and seems not getting anywhere, be direct but not on an emotional level.

Friendzone what? I'm confused.

Stop insulting her.

Im my opinion, you stuck on the same topic for a little too long. Change the topic man, built comfort. You're funny enough already. Add DHVs into the conversation. You keep going over and over the same old NEG.

Ask her if she could be anything, what would she be? (And tell her to not say princess ) Or, instead of asking questions, make statements. Instead of asking her whats her hobby, tell her your hobby as a statement. Build conspiracy and comfort.

She seems a little interested and make sure you're smooth for your next meeting.

good luck

Edited cause i left something out.

Thanks for the replies Insults hurts but she's laughing, it's more likly negs but you're right, i have to tune it down a little bit.


She flirts for EVERY SINGLE GUY, sending hearts, ect, but when they ask for a date or something she'll just LJBF them.
I don't know where i stand! am i being perceived as one of those guys, or not. i really negged her so hard that she got used to it lool.
comfort is what i'm missing clearly!!
well this is the first "flirty social butterfly" i try to game, and i've got to tell that it's not as easy as i thought, i still have those AFC thoughts even though i never let it take control over my actions.
Anyway i didn't find a playfull way to punish her for flaking the past saturday. any ideas?

_________________
Golden Rules i learned:
1- If you complement do it a serious way.
2- If a conversation starts with a low vibe and seems not getting anywhere, be direct but not on an emotional level.

Another social butterfly. They flirt with everyone, I mean everyone! I totally understand how you feel man.

You have to show that you're better than other guys, you could start a conversation like don't you get bored flirting with everyone? She will start explain things and you could answer like okay okay you don't have to explain those to me.

Sometimes it will be hard to deal with a social butterfly. But once you get the game clear and know where you're heading it will be easy as cake.

You don't have to punish her. Just show some disinterest and it will work out fine. By punishing her, it show that you are needy. Don't even mention it in future conversations. Its bad for your game.

Good luck and have fun

Man I really enjoyed reading this because you're in the same place I always fall apart at. It's like you've met the girl you're talking you've even got a little attraction and when you go to get more it just doesn't seem to manifest. I can tell you guys are in a flirtatious state and I hate to say it but all you need is a broader set of banter lines. This is where subtlety is everything. I wouldn't over stress. find some good cocky funny lines: http://puame.ca/archives.html and just keep practicing. When I started game I stayed a long time with this stuff and honestly I don't think it'd be right for me to say I've surpassed it cuz really I haven't but I know where the mistakes take place. It's just having the better thing to say and knowing when to say it, it's all practice. I picked a girl up a chapters and went through banter like that over text message for days and got nothing made her laugh busted her balls but like the other guy says you gotta break through into value demonstration. Have awesome lines to say drop a few then cut that thread and stack forward into DHV spikes.

That's great, but maybe she'll perceive it as if i'm bothered by it, i usually ignore the fact that she's flirting with everyone
Hmmm, yea you're right. But if she flakes again i'll punish her for bad behavior.
That is gold!! thanks for sharing, I appreciates. It's totally the same situation am at, same issues!!

I already DHV'ed and i'm on my way to comfort. Well I just had to actually invite an insecure hb6 over coffee after leaving a "miss u" on my facebook wall and i ignored my hb9 social butterfly, and guess what? she just updated her status to "Unlucky me!" "I love cats they are more faithful then certain persons" "if you wanted something strongly then released it, if it returns to you it's yours for ever and if it didn't it wasn't yours from the beginning". she would never ever update any bad emotions or something like that, plus she changed her profile picture to a teddy bear saying "I love you" , usually she always put her real pic at social gatherings/parties etc, all that happened in 2 hours!

I've got to say that I'm amazed how powerful are jealousy plotlines, i mean, AFC-orbiters would never ever try to make her jealous, because they think that they don't have to in order to win competition. Now i know where i stand, I'm planning to ignore her for the next 24h and call her tomorrow to ask her out saturday, i've got a feeling she'll have to work hard for it.

Thanks guys.

_________________
Golden Rules i learned:
1- If you complement do it a serious way.
2- If a conversation starts with a low vibe and seems not getting anywhere, be direct but not on an emotional level.

*small talk*
Me: Let's have a cup of coffee tomorrow
HB: No, i can't tomorrow :p
Me: Well when can you, princess? :p

No Reply

_________________
Golden Rules i learned:
1- If you complement do it a serious way.
2- If a conversation starts with a low vibe and seems not getting anywhere, be direct but not on an emotional level.

Simply put, that is your fault.

Not until she feels 100% comfortable in going out with you and more importantly, be able to see herself out with you alone, she is going to keep avoiding this topic.

Constant badgering her about this is only going to make things worse. For you.

Right now, you have to aim for what you haven't "tried" till now. Start comfort building. Talk about your hobbies, get her to talk about her dreams, hobbies, ambitions, desires, past events etc. Also, share stuff about your life too. Comfort building isn't a one-way street.

The more she opens up towards you, the more comfortable she gets with you, the better chances you are that she will want to see you in person.

So, don't ask her out till you feel you've reached a point where you think she's "comfortable enough" with you. Got it?

Good luck.

- Don

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

You're totally right, i almost forgot what the AFC-Old-Me used to say "men are afraid of approching women, women are afraid to go on first dates", and the reason why i didn't build comfort is actually fear of falling in the friendzone, thread title explain it too.

She just told me that she had exams for 2 weeks and we'll hangout after that, she's reporting out meetup for the second time, you're right she's not flaking but rather she would want to be more comfortable and "safe" on our first "date".

But i'm a litle bit confused about comfort and attraction calibration. I used to always fall into the friendzone, but since i never increase comfort i don't anymore, and i actually can game girls i meet face to face, but it never lasts.So can any one give me some pointers how to calibrate both comfort and attraction, how not to fall into the friendzone while building some comfort. i know that experience and sarging will give me the answer i need but i don't wanna screw this up (I'm not falling for ONEITIS, but i have a weakness for social butterflies and sexy nurses :p)

_________________
Golden Rules i learned:
1- If you complement do it a serious way.
2- If a conversation starts with a low vibe and seems not getting anywhere, be direct but not on an emotional level.

Here's how you do that.

Firstly, you get her to open up about herself. It's not a surprise that women love to talk about themselves. Ask questions like you are interested in knowing the answers.

Be curious, be earnest. Don't be an interviewer. Also, another thing you don't have to be is her therapist.

You can always ask her about her dreams, her hobbies, why she likes what she likes, what does she think of feminism, indulge women in intelligent, fulfilling conversations and they will appreciate you, for the fact that you looked above their bodies and about their brains.

Also, open up about yourself. Tell her silly stories, tell her about your vulnerable moments, talk to her about your childhood memories. Women have a very strong attachment to men who open up to them. They love that the guy trusted her with this information and she feels loved by it.

As for not falling into the friend's zone, well friends behave much differently than lovers, they console women about their break-ups, they try to know about her feelings for her exes, they are always too sweet which often comes off as a bit annoying etc. Just observe your "friends" and notice the traits. Avoid the ones which make you think "Just a friend" and focus on the other ones. And you'll be fine.

Honestly, these things are basic pointers that will get you frankly everywhere with women. Remember them.

Good luck.

- Don

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

Hey man, I got some ideas for you that could possibly help you with your game

first off, you are setting negative frames for her when you qualify, for what ever reason you are trying to qualify her to DLV , this seems sort of bad, I don't understand what you are doing here, you are supposed to bait her into DHV'ing so that you can hit on her for it, she even qualified for you and then you continued to put her down, it makes no sense
why you are being so negative towards her and setting up the frame of I don't like you, is beyond me, If you are trying to prize yourself insulting the girl and putting her down is not the proper way to do it, high value does not punish, it loses interest, high value does not judge it accepts all people, you don't insult people and judge them, you compliment them in a way that makes them seem not so great, you're really cute, just like a little sister, this is a neg, WOW YOU'RE STUPID, is an insult not a neg, and if your gonna try to qualify someone with YOU'RE STUPID ARENT YOU?, I LIKE SMART GIRLS,

this translates to the girl as
your too stupid for me, i don't like you

you are basically judging her, it as if you already have decided what she is like instead of trying to let her know what you like, and seeing if she is like that,

a better way of putting it would have been, ''you're not one of those girls who is bad at school are you?, I like smart girls ''


instead of telling her what she is and judging her, the frame should more be, I'm unsure of what you are and I want to find out, and if she doesn't qualify then tease or add more value, and I say TEASE, NOT INSULT, INSULTING WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING BESIDES HER FLAKING ON YOU AND BEING RUDE TO YOU,

and if she begins being rude she is not shit testing, she is genuinely showing dis-interest when she begins insulting you, cause you have been a dick to her, it is uncalibrated when she is behaving to be rude for no reason, however if she is walking around like her shit doesn't stink or showing dis-interest, this is the time to neg, not just at all times when ever you feel like it for no reason, being rude will get you no where, you don't even need to neg at all, not even once, to get a close, some guys even avoid building attraction with dhv's and negs, they just start off showing interest and being honest

im not sure what you were trying to get here, if this girl would ever want to meet up with you, or for that matter have sex with you, I would be surprised, you seem like your trying to be a dick during these interactions

not falling into the friend zone is as simple as being flirty, and putting you and sex on her mind, together, insulting her does nothing to help you stay out of the friend zone, if anything it puts you in the ''NO SEX ZONE'', the ''I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND HIM ZONE''

Honestly If this girl is an HB9 I think alot of this can be cut right down short and sweet. SHE's HOT! lol she gets asked out on a hundred dates a month. You have to set yourself apart. http://puame.ca/videos/videos15.html Watch Cajun second column he talks about how the guys with the hottest girls say almost nothing. Stop trying HB9's and HB10's take solid game. SHUT UP don't try to attract her stop that blow her off turn her down. I LOVE THIS QUOTE ABOVE LOVE IT LOVE IT! lol you ran a jealousy plot line and she reacted dramatically in 2 hours then you tried reeling her in and she blew you off.... You know why? Because she's a 9 HB6,7 or 8 that would be enough. But HB9 she needs more value. She knows that you really want her she felt jealousy toward the HB6 you brought over but then you cut it and went for her. Short and sweet it was too fast. You should have invited the HB6 over and then DHV'd again maybe host a party invite her over very casually then when she gets there have a 3rd girl or ignore her and lead a group of guys. This girl is seeking value BIG value it's gonna take a stack of DHV spikes to reel her in.

Thanks Don for the pointers, i appreciate. I don't get it here, you said she qualified! but i said i wanted a smart girl, she said i'm not smart! where i thought that qualifying would be like "well i'm actually smart when *story*" right?
Well i wasn't entending to insult her, and she didn't took it as an insult, she's very playfull so am I! I don't know why all you guys stuck on "insult!", i mean insults hurts! but she's playing along! the only thing i was confused about is her not qualifiying and after your respons it gets even more confusing.
You're right, i agree.
she's chasing me right now she wasn't offended, she and i both know that I'm just teasing. And she responded to "why should i love you? :p"
HB: "because i'm your little stupid brat! "
Don't ask me why i'm doing that, it just works on her. what can i say? don't blame me!

It wasn't the only jealousy plotline i used, and yes she needs BIG value!

_________________
Golden Rules i learned:
1- If you complement do it a serious way.
2- If a conversation starts with a low vibe and seems not getting anywhere, be direct but not on an emotional level.

Well if you already used more than one jealousy plot line then chances are the situations a little more complicated. Sounds like you know what you're doing though I'd keep doing what your doing and watch her reactions closely to pickup where the whole in your game is. Sounds to me you've got this pretty down you're just struggling with the fine tuning.