OK

So I have one piece of advice that I remember my Dad telling me specifically about woman when I was younger.

"Treat them nice, respect them and they will come to you!"

I actually quite like being a nice girl but, from personal experience, being a nice guy means being put on the top shelf of the nearest friend zone store and letting woman use it like a charity shop.

I think a lot of the older generation, who weren't really clued into any sort of game generally had this persona. Now my dad's like my best friend, and he we was far from an AFC in his time. He even dated a TV presenter (hell know what her name is).

But his advice to me, now knowing what I know, is a little frustrating, basically from a young age my Dad was programming me into being a Beta, unconsciously of course, as I know he used to love my Alpha ways.

Wondering if this is a common occurrence, that advice passed down from the older generation is very AFC ish and that they hold back, especially parents. I learnt more from my Uncle, who was and still is a hero of mine, than I ever did from my Dad.

Was game easier for them back in the day? I mean the 60's must of been nice, all that free love!

_________________
- PUA Student

The Friend Zone sucks!

Just based on my observation...and I could be wrong about this...

It's not a matter of being nice or mean in a technical sense. It's the way you carry yourself. Carry yourself like an alpha, move like an alpha, go about business like you mean it and you don't need any help with it. It's about giving off the impression of self-reliance, rather than giving the impression that you're looking for co-dependency. Some guys achieve this by simply being a__holes, but it can be done as a "nice guy."

Frank Sinatra is a good example. He crooned and romanced and nice-guyed it all over the place and women still chased after him in DROVES. Why? Because he carried himself like an alpha. He kept his hat at a cocky angle and slung that coat over his shoulder like he didn't give a damn. I know a couple of old-school charmers like that (that are actually old, lol. Just proves how successful that is since they're 50 years my senior and I still think they're charming) and they act exactly the same way.

Just my 2c.

_________________
Cheers,

Alice

So this bring me to another question of were older generation were more self reliant than they let on?

As I've grown up I've found it hard to have any 'celebrities' as hero's, Frank Sinatra for all purpose's is one of mine, but for our generation we lack key figures like this. We have no James Dean's. The closest thing, and this is probably influenced because I'm british and ginger, is Prince Harry, he's the only role model who has an alpha impression, or at least this is how I feel.

Is self reliance a huge thing for girls though, over say something like connection to a guy emotionally. Especially one looking to be in a relationship surely they would be looking for co-dependant values?

Makes me wonder what was lost between my generation and the last, somewhere down the line a vital piece of alpha was lost, instinct. I look around at guys today and it makes me laugh, I mean I'm no better these days as I'm hung up, but as a generation I feel we haven't got that spark and the majority of people are clueless when it comes to talking to woman, even in a social context. Thought?

_________________
- PUA Student

The Friend Zone sucks!

Oooh boy. What I think the answer to that is...is hugely long and complicated.

But I'll try to give you one important chunk of my theory: entertainment. Things used to be about creation, true enjoyment. These days we demand to be entertained, and we consume every piece of entertainment thoughtlessly. Not to mention that the way that entertainment is presented is screwing up everyone's ability to pay attention for more than 2.3 seconds.

Bigger, faster, flashier, brighter!

Why would you go through the effort of becoming a good dancer when you can watch Dancing with the Stars at home, and the only standard at the club is (for girls - sorry, have to work a little bit from my perspective here) sticking your rear end in a guy's crotch and grinding around a bit? -___- I mean you basically have to go to a club for dancing professionals if you want to find some moves that aren't tantamount to sex on the dancefloor. Kind of sad, really, but I digress.

That's just one example. Point being, people aren't self-reliant because they don't have to be. Everything they want/want to be is delivered on a silver platter.

_________________
Cheers,

Alice

Gonna comment on the OP.

What you need to understand here is that your old man gave you advice from his own point of view. He already had a girl and he looks back on his youth and remembers the highlights, when he was hot and awesome. With that in mind and given that he is an adult man and not a boy anymore, it is not surprising that this would be his advice.

He has social status and in his opinion, doing bad stuff would be abusing his position. And since he is proud of his son, he assumes that you are high in status too, which you may or may not be.

Some people can afford to be nice and it works for them since everyone sees that they could be bad if they wanted to but choose not to. Some people cannot afford it and it shows.

If James Bond buys a girl a drink, he is a gentleman.

If a loser buys a girl a drink, he is needy and pathetic...

It all depends on where you are in life and on the social ladder. To really give and understand advice, put yourself in someone elses shoes...

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

So true, everyone is gifted anything they want these days. I see guys trying it on with girls in clubs, and even the girls are gifting them it...I mean yeah they aren't hot, but that's the gene pool for you.
Never really seen it like that before...everything in society is contextual...reminds me of a Scarface quote "You gotta make the money first. Then when you got the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women" a classic example of DHV, scarface's rise to the top.

_________________
- PUA Student

The Friend Zone sucks!

Ezo is pretty much on the money here, how you deliver anything is important. Over 2000 years ago Publilius Syrus said "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.". So if a girl is given a drink by you because you can afford it, you don't care, and for you the cost of a drink is easily worth the time it takes her to drink it talking to you, you've proven yourself to be savvy, but if it seems like you're trying to buy her or impress her with the drink itself, you seem weak and needy.

If you make yourself the best you can be, and don't sell yourself short, don't back away from your own opinions and self respect, you're obviously far more valuable because she can't just manipulate you. You're not cheap. If gold was cheap and lined the streets we wouldn't value it, but because it is rare, it is valuable.

_________________
Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.