So time and time again I read that Pick up art is a self help thing. It is about bettering yourselves, and those around you. About meeting new people and adding to their lives.

It is not about fucking and flying.

It is not about manipulation.

and it isn't about treating people like objects.


It is wonderful to hear that. I would consider myself a philanthropist (most of the time). Sometimes I have gotten caught up in these books and the boards and start acting way's I don't like, but I eventually get back from the dark side. For a while there, I was turning everyone i met into a "goal to fuck this person." (a lot of failed goals, haha)

The point of this topic is to figure out a question that really defines the community. Are PUA's supposed to be emotionally detached?

Now I do know that you aren't supposed to act that way, and your not supposed to treat people the ways I listed above....but most of what I read, see, and hear involves quite a bit of carelessness, zero expectations, and a lack of bonding.

Is that what people have to obtain before they can be successful? I started learning in July. I have made zero progress, but have been taken through a lot of different emotions. I feel I simply care way to much. Is that something I need to work on, or is there something I missed? Am I just completely wrong in how I am looking at this?


this is kind of a jumbled post, because I'm not exactly sure what I am trying to ask, but i think it gets the question across.

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

I have the same problem, I'm always battling one-itis. I too am fairly new to this but I think I can answer your question.

I think you might be confused about being Alpha and emotionally detached. If you are alpha you don't care whether she likes you or not and what she thinks initially. After you build comfort you connect and become more emotionally available. At this point you can bond. That is way different than being emotionally detached, which implies you will never care what she thinks/feels/wants. Attraction is a battle of frames, comfort is an attempt to connect frames.

In addition, from my POV, I think that everyone has a personal tally of HB's they've kiss and F closed, but that doesn't mean they are treating women like objects in order to attain sex. At first to overcome AA, aspiring PUA's regard women objectively because they are trying to improve their social skills and eliminate previous fears/inhibitions; their objective. After this I don't think anyone really objectifies women anymore in the sense that you are thinking of. Sure, our objective is to get laid, but that doesn't mean we treat women like objects. Treating women like objects implies we see them as toys without real thoughts, feelings and opinions- as inhuman. This isn't true because that is chauvinism, which is on a completely different spectrum.

I hope this helps, it kind of came out as a stream of consciousness. I'm not the most experienced guy here but this is just what came to my mind.

Ultimately, the goal of a PUA should be a goal of bettering your social skills and making yourself a better person. All of us started our journey of social improvement the same way: for whatever reason, we looked at our life and realized that we deserved better. We spent so much time looking at the guys who were getting the women and cursing that eventually we started to wonder why we couldn't be that guy.

That's the problem with our society: people spend far too much time wishing instead of actually doing. When it comes down to it that's what separates us from the AFCs -- while they're sitting at the back of the club wishing they could get the balls to talk to the HB at the bar, we're gritting our teeth and doing it because we know that we owe it to ourselves.

It's amazing how much this stuff can change you for the better. Not only do you find people generally liking you better, but soon you realize that you like YOURSELF better as well, and that's what is most important in the end.

I see that I'm rambling, but I'm not going to apologize for it. AFC Blues would have stuttered and weakly said that he was sorry but this Blues will not. So I'll just end it with this: there should be no real "cons" in the journey of becoming a PUA. Right when you see yourself manipulating people is when you should look yourself over again.

Sadly, there are people who spend their whole lives with their emergency break on. Their lives are constantly jerking to a halt with thoughts like "I'm not good enough" or "That girl would never like me." Simply put, becoming a PUA is all about taking your foot off of the break and stepping on the gas.

it does. just so everyone knows though, this is definitely a question and not a statement. I am just trying to figure out how everyone can move about so quickly.

but you phrased it well; just so I know I read it correctly, what you are saying is emotions and emotional attachment isn't actually lacking for the PUA's....it is just that it comes waaaay later down the line than it would for an AFC?

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

I wouldn't say that at all. I don't believe being detached is a necessity, but I will tell you that it is what happens to a lot of people, because they don't see any of the alternatives and end up wanting to be PUAs so bad that they ditch their emotions for a title that means nothing once they get there, because they ditched the one thing to make it mean anything.

I say don't become detached, but learn to take a step back to think about things and then when you're in a conversation, take half a step back. When you're talking to people, or doing something that you're really interested in, you tend to lose any sort of peripheral thoughts and its all focused on what's right in front of you, basically you're so focused on it you almost forget what's going on in your head, cause you're living "outside your head". When you take a bit of a step back and you make yourself more aware and pay more attention to everything going on, then you're able to think things through better and run better game, its more like actually being "inside your head'.

When you ditch your emotions, you automatically become detached and can stay inside your head, giving better game. With emotions right there all the time, you're gonna be outside your head and have worse game, cause you aren't thinking things through properly. You can vary that though. The more you take a step back in your head, the less emotions you'll feel, but they're still there and you can still experience them, but they don't cloud your judgement. So, find where you need to set your mindset depending on what you're doing. If you're out with the guys, feel those emotions as much as you want, when you're out with the guys and there's girls you want to sarge, take it back some, but still have a great time.

Make any sense?

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Ok, Locke, I have something to add that will hopefully help you to understand a little better too.

One of the core attraction switches is the Willingness to Emote. In other words, your willing to "show emotion". As in, if you're standing with a girl, talking to her, and someone doesn't pay attention to what they are doing and they walk backwards right into you and knock you off balance, you have the choice of continuing on with what you were saying to the girl w/o even acknowledging that someone just touched you, or you could be willing to show the emotion and tell the person that went into you to watch out or be careful or something like that, and tell your target "some people are so rude" or something. It's better to have a small reaction to it. It's cool, because you are showing the willingness to emote.

But, at the same time, if a girl shoots you down, you don't need to let it GET YOU down. Move on. In doing that, you're not attached to the outcome of that particular set.

Does that make sense to help answer your question? If not, let us know and we'll work on explaining it better, lol.

This is a long post. For that I apologize but I believe that some of the concepts that I am going to describe are quite useful for obtaining goals in life.

I believe that all human beings need to feel emotions. Emotions is what drives us. Emotional energy is our gasoline. Think about for a second... Where would the human race be if it did not feel emotions?

Without the emotion of anger there would be no change in the world. If the black people in South Africa hadn't been angry because of the apartheid there would most likely still be apartheid. Without anger there is no revolution . This also applies to "personal revolution". If you hadn't gotten pissed at some point because of failure regarding women you would never have found this forum.

Without emotional energy there is no change.

However one of the things that separate an alpha from a beta male is that the alpha male is in control of his emotions. If the beta male gets mad because of something he will feel sorry for himself. He will feel that there is no justice in the world. If the alpha male gets mad he will do something about the thing that made him made. If he failed at something he would learn the skills that would prevent him from failing again.

So basically the alpha male isn't deattached from his emotions. He uses the energy of his emotions to motivate him to change.

Your anger is a gift.

All this being said there will be something which you have to emotionally deattach from. These are the things that you do not control. For instance don't get pissed if the weather is bad. You can't change the weather and if you spend your emotional energy wishing you could then it would be a waste of gasoline. This concept applies to pick up since another thing you can't control is the future. This means that you should not spend emotional energy worrying about the outcome of a interaction with a woman. You have to deattach from the feeling of anxiety that comes from worrying about rejection.

Another thing that you don't control is the past. If you get rejected then there is nothing you can do to change that specific rejection because you can't change the past. Don't spend emotional energy on it. Being sorry for yourself if you get rejected is the behavior of the beta male. However if you do get angry/frustrated because of a rejection then use the energy to become better. Use the energy as a motivation to obtain the necessary skills to diminish the chances of rejection the next time.

So yes you have to deattach from some feelings. You should strive to be deattached from negative feelings regarding your past. If you cannot deattach from them then you need to use the energy to get a skill set so that you will know how to handle the situation that resulted in the negative feelings if the situation should present itself again.

You should also strive to deattach from anxiety regarding the future. Worrying about the past or the future will steal the energy you need to use in the present. The energy you need to become a better human being. If you feel anxiety or anger because of past events or because of fear regarding the future you must transform that emotional energy into the feeling of willingness to change.

Best of luck

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- - > "It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

hollywoodinpa on The Transition to Natural Game:

the-transition-to-natural-game-vt15880.html

All three of you did a terrific job explaining it. You guys all said it a different way, but it pretty much had the same basic principle:

PUA's have emotions; emotions are fine...and they are actually NEEDED. However, you can not let your emotions control you and be the main driving force behind your thoughts and actions.

There is no need to be detached, but don't become overly attached.

React to things, but don't over react.


It is weird with me because I over think many things, but at the same time...over-react or over-emote. Whether it was anger, sadness, what have you.

A man I once talked to said that the way people work is they hear/see/do something, emotionally label that something (feel a certain way), then react to that something. AtoBtoC, iono some psychology stuff. A person is not able to change what someone else does, nor can they change how they feel about it. What a person can do is change how they REACT to it.

All three of you pretty much said the same thing. And when you put it in this light (a way I have been told to look at things before), I can now logically think about it...and actively work on changing.

I loved the honest answer about this too; I was afraid what I would hear would be something completely different - something I wouldnt be willing to change into.

But what I heard here, thats just betterment of oneself.

Thanks.

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

Life is a journey that we all must take alone. Every step in our story leads us one step closer to an end we face alone. People come into our lives, and we use techniques to convey who we are. Emotional attachment to someone you don't know based on their physical appearance is not logical. People appreciate the things that take effort, and when they have to bond with someone it is for a reason. Their is no such thing as love. We are emotional creatures friendship, lust, and passion combined with good sex is love to us. Take one of those connections away and it becomes something else entirely. Your not making progress because your not being pushed to do so, and you need to mentor. You need a PUA to wing with and group of PUA's to give you perspective. Also you need that push to take things to the next level.

then get that ass up to Massachusetts and give me a hand ;p

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

Glad to hear you got the concept! It always makes me sad to hear guys say that emotions are a burden and need to be tossed aside, because they are what make the game have any meaning, as well as being one of your greatest assets and tools for running game.

Your comment about the psychology thing made me think of something I wrote yesterday. I think its the second post by me in this thread:

mirroring-or-lean-back-confused-vt11232.html

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye