BB, your apology at the very beginning of your post was good, but then . . . First of all, who are you to judge that? What the HELL does the length of time matter? I SERIOUSLY don't know why you guys are SO hung up on that fucking issue. Does it SEROUSLY have to take a damn year to accumulate posts? Now, I DO agree that not all who say they are "PUA's" are really PUA's. Ok, so WHAT if some noobs are looking for quick fixes? Tell me HOW that is sending the forum into a downward spiral? Because it no longer fits into your perfect mold? Come on man. Get real. There are people on this forum from LITERALLY all over the world. And, some people either don't KNOW what all material is available, or can't afford all of it, or maybe just don't understand it all. And, if you haven't noticed, among your blasts at me, I DO stay aggressive on the ass clowns, which includes you when you blast me. But neither you nor I have the power to kick the ass clowns off the board. Honestly, if we did, a lot of people would be kicked out instead of being helped like they need to be. That's why they're here and that's supposed to be why we're here. First, how are people making a mockery of this board? In general? No matter WHAT you do in life, there will ALWAYS be people that don't respect it. That's LIFE man. You have to learn to deal with that. Second, if you were once an AFC and hated others for berating you . . . then why the hell didn't you learn from that and NOT do that to others in turn? See, no one is threatening what you have worked so hard to create man. People are just asking for advice, whether it be quick fixes or something more significant. If you hate the noobs asking for quick fixes, like Rye said, IGNORE them. They are still NOT destroying the forum. They are simply WANTING to learn. So . . . LET THEM. Yes, I understand the typing situation, the grammar crap, and all of that. And again, as far as keeping idiots and posers out . . . they will indeed weed themselves out if given the chance. But YOU or I DO NOT HAVE the right to say who can and can't come into the forum. ONCE YOU DO THAT, IT'S NO LONGER A BEACON HOPE as you say it's supposed to be. The only reason a board or forum dies is because the good ones run away. So, don't let it die. The good ones simply . . . s.t.a.y. Again, BB, who are YOU to act like God? Who are YOU or I to tell every person on this forum that they are to adhere to some form of Iron-fisted discipline or supervision? DO YOU SERIOUSLY WANT TO REGULATE THIS PLACE LIKE THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT REGULATES EVERY DAMN AREA OF PEOPLE'S LIVES ALREADY? I thought this was a beacon of hope? It WON'T be if you want it to be that way. This is LIFE man. LIFE. Quit the damn POWER TRIPPING! I don't doubt that the "seniors" hate the noobs coming in . . . because EVERYONE hears from the seniors how they hate it. All the time too. But you know what? There needs to be noobs. In case you've forgotten, you were one once yourself. Oh, yeah, you admitted it earlier . . . but you don't want the process to repeat? Look, the discipline thing is something you seriously need to let go of. The discipline is up to the PUA that IS SERIOUS about what he/she is doing, and not for YOU or I to decide. And dedication???????????? What the FUCK do you think I'M DOING? I'M DEDICATED TO HELPING. YET I KEEP GETTING BLASTED FROM THE SENIORS FOR MY DEDICATION. ALL BECAUSE OF THE IDIOTIC TIME AND POST ISSUE! Yet, I'm still here. That's dedication. That's something the "seniors" are actually appearing to lack . . . AT THE MOMENT. Just because you're tired of the noobs. Ok, as I keep saying, the noobs don't necessarily WANT to destroy this place. They simply want to LEARN. And we ALL learn in different ways. You have to accept that. Einsten was considered stupid in school, yet he was one of our true genuises. We don't all learn the same way man. Again, that's life. Yes, I do know where you're coming from, and thanks for exposing that. We DO need to work together on this site, FOR THE GOOD OF ALL. We both have things that we NEED to teach to people. They come here for help. They don't need to be turned away. As you said, this is the BEACON OF HOPE. The forum already is something great, man, don't you get that? If it WASN'T, we wouldn't be attracting the flood of noobs . . . doesn't that make sense? I know, you'll say the flood is because of the fact that PUA has been exposed. But the fact is, if this forum wasn't great, the people STILL wouldn't be here.
Come on Meth. When I first came to this forum, I actually respected you. I even asked you for some specific advice I needed at the time, and you helped me. But, come on dude. With comments like that it sounds like you need to grow up too. I thought you were better than this.

Like Rye said, do you guys SERIOUSLY hate this forum this much now? What IS you guys's problem?

These flame wars really are just seriously stupid. And, the fucking power tripping is ridiculous. Real, mature alphas wouldn't have to resort to that shit.

Now, can we actually work together here?

...ok.

my apologies.honestly.

...Apparently, It seems that the flow of life is that, some things must go along without chance of change.

But yet, enough of this. We're all making ourselves look ridiculous, and I've addressed this in my journal section.

..lock this thread, someone. I feel we are all at a misunderstanding, and we need to discuss this in a more positive light.

Why can't you give your stance and either choose to be helpful, or at least not harmful to the health of the forum. YOU are causing a large portion of this "downward spiral" we keep hearing about, because YOU keep yelling at people that just want to learn and just don't know where to start. I'm sure as some point in time, you may have been a noob, not a newbie, but a noob and gone "WOW! How, do I do this?!" or "What now?!" and people say, "search it" or "look here" and then after that they realise the error of their ways and become productive members. I don't remember who it was, but I KNOW several people that are now considered good members and are even in the PMZ, that I started out telling on their 4th post to use the search, or read the faq.

Basically, all we're asking, is that if you CAN'T STAND to help these people, then JUST IGNORE them and let people that can stand it handle it. I used to do tons of the newbie help, but I have stopped a lot, because I've been very busy and because I got a bit tired and needed a break from answering the same stuff. Luckily, there are new up and comers, like Tripp was around the time I slowed down, and hopefully someone will be around when he slows down, because newbies will always need help.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

What is "legitimacy"? Post count? I could post 1,000,000 and give bad advice in each one, and would that make me legitimate? Hell, Mystery could come up here and have a 10 post count, and would he be legitimate? People who know the methods, the material, know who's legitimate or not. I've seen some awful advice given to people on these forums, and I just shrug. They'll learn the hard way.
You showed that "maturity" on yet another thread telling everybody to shut the fuck up.

Jesus.

Okay you guys. Yes, there are newbies coming in and asking questions that they could answer themselves by reading a PUA book or simply using the search. But I agree if we dont like a thread that someone makes we merely dont have to respond. And I am very appreciated for the people that have the patience and do answer.

I am no saint and have lost my cool on some post from newbies but I am trying to change that habit and I think people who think theres nothing wrong with flaming them need to change.

I think we need to take down our alphaness and try to be a little more humble.(including me).

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Perception is Reality

hahahaha.... im sick of all the drama too. can everybody just give it a rest

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-rook

You're right Trivial, and that's the whole purpose of this.

Funny shit.....

Love your sneaker posts Meth.... Very amusing.

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Recommended reading list.

Double Your Dating by DD
(This will work on your inner game)

http://www.freewebs.com/xfman/
(This will work on your outer game)

Alright, first things first, I tried to stay out of this, but it seems like some people like to provoke me with stupid ass statements that I just can't let go unresponded to.
Thanks for the golden advice man, your really there for me when I need you. You know, I was just being sarcastic, but now that you've given me so much insight into this situation, my mind has now been changed. Rye Lee, your excellence and intelligence are extraordinary, I mean...Who would think to stop reading the posts? Man. This guy is profound.

Seriously though, shut the fuck up. It was a late-night comment that was meant to dull down and extinguish this stupid ass post. Nothing is being accomplished here, so don't act like I'm hating on some superb. Because I'm hating on a post that holds no intellectual value whatsoever, and theres a big fucking difference.

Oh wait, I'm trying to force the entire board to think and act as I do. Thats it. My little one line comment was intertwined with a secretive plan to mold everyone to my liking. Thats it. You fucking numbskull. I hope your not serious, because if you are, theres more than a few screws missing from your skull. Honestly, do you even think about what you say before you post?
I'm glad you respected me at some point, I guess. Honestly it doesn't matter much in my reality, but thanks for the semi-kind words there buddy. How do I need to grow up? Because I'm trying to make light of some stupid ass thread with a silly comment? You my friend, need to grow the fuck up. Thought I was better than this? Better than what? What the fuck kind of ambiguous statement is that? Whatever "this" is, I assure you I don't feel the need to be better than it, I'm perfectly content with how I am. I see no need to refrain from giving this stupid ass post, a stupid ass comment to dilute and disband it.

Do I seriously hate the forum this much? What is my problem? Rye Lee and his stupid ass statements for starters. Thats my problem. I don't hate this forum and I don't have a problem. Am I not entitled to put my two cents into any post that I see fit? Or do I just have to leave it to you mr. LA TRIPP to make posts yelling about seniors and how they are so mean to you?

Before either of you go and make any more ignorant statements about me, I'd rethink your stance and stop always trying to be right. At this point, no-one even cares anymore. You all bitch and preach about "no flame wars" yet you all fuel them (I realize this is part of it, but if people could have taken my comment like it was supposed to be read and not made ignorant remarks concerning my personality we wouldn't be reading this, now would we?).

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Amor est Vitae Essentia

SIDE NOTE: If you guys think "being Alpha" involves proving each other wrong on the forum. You guys really don't have a clue. FYI.

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Amor est Vitae Essentia

Um, guys I hate to tell you this but this whole thing is getting really retarded. We are arguing with each other about arguing with each other about not arguing, posting post after useless post and making more dunmass shit than the noobs we are complaining about.
Kid, shut the fuck up! Doesn't anyone have something worthwhile to say anymore?

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http://www.solomonseagal.com

Anyone can walk into a bar and pick up a random girl.
The trick is to make the experience unforgettable to her.
A real PUA will make every women he encounters feel like she experience something once in a lifetime.

Unfortunately, no.

I am done here. Fuck everyone on THIS forum. I've got my boys at PUALifestyle, and we're making a change, not running a PUA daycare center for little sensitive newbs.

...Lock this thread, someone.

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Amor est Vitae Essentia

Nice attitude to have. Things aren't going my way so I'm packing up my ball and going home. It's amazing you have any success in PUA. Do you do the same thing when women reject you? I certainly hope not. I'm not trying to down you or anything, and I totally feel where you are coming from in regards to the noobs and moderation. It's not my forums, so it's not my place to say so. I do know over on the MM forums, those mods dont take shit from the newbies and the have a 4 warning system before you are banned for 2 weeks. They go overboard on the warnings a bit and some of them are flat out assholes, but least it cuts down on the stupid nonsense.

I just simply ignore the pleas from the One-itis crew or reply with the "Go fuck 10 other women". You are young my padawan, so don't let stupid shit rile you up. Alpha men are .....like Fonzie....and tell me blackbull....how is Fonzie? He's coooool. You damn right BlackBull, he's cool, and that's what we are going to be. Cool.


(rep points to anybody that gets the reference in the last paragraph)

Once upon a time...

I found a community of men willing to share their most intimate and debilitating secrets with one another. They put aside profound differences to help one another achieve a better way of life. There was no worry about respect or the amount of time someone had spent on the boards or how many posts they had. It was the golden era, the beginning of the Second Generation of Pick-up.

The only person on the board that has been here longer than I have, is Brad. And no offense to the guy, he's not exactly a big talker. My post count is high (not as high as some of you, obviously, but high enough) and most of my posts have been quality. Some, of course, are single-sentence one-offs, but they are in the minority.

What I'm trying to establish with this is that I know my shit. I've been here for a long time, and I've watched this board go through a few very big changes over that time. When I first started giving advice, the only rival I had was Jaxin. And let's face it, that guy's an ass-hat. ^_^

With all of the Ego that comes into this community, I've seen a lot of it tossed around willy-nilly. When Meth first showed up here, I thought he was an ass-hat. It took him a long time and some good posts to earn my respect. Romeo, too. And since this place exploded with newbs, no one has really had the chance to prove to me they know their shit. Not that they need to prove it to _me_, but rather, they need to prove themselves to the community. Does that require a certain number of posts? Yeah, it does. It also requires time. I spent months responding to newbs about every aspect of game, and devouring every source I could find on the subject, before anyone respected my opinion on this art. My post-count went up, and with it came the respect of the forum.

So. Do I think this forum has deteriorated? Yes, I most certainly think it has. The quality of the posts and - more tellingly - the quality of the responses to those posts has gone down dramatically. The quantity of the posts has gone up exponentially. What we're seeing is a dilution of knowledge. The few good posts are lost in a sea of crap, and a lot of guys can't be bothered to try and sift through it all. I know that if I were to come onto this forum now, rather than a year ago, I would have spent my time somewhere else, because the signal-to-noise ratio has gotten as bad as mASF's. That is what I mean when I say that this forum has begun a downward spiral (whether that matches up with others, I don't know). The crap posts that new rAFCs are making are providing other rAFCs useless knowledge, knowledge that hasn't been field-tested or has been to little effect. Then those rAFCs spout off the same "knowledge" to others, and we have misinformation everywhere.

This is where the "length of time" vs "number of posts" question originates, I think. If you post a huge amount of posts, does that make you good? Not necessarily. The advice you give has to be solid. It takes time to sort the chaff.

Honestly, I think these flame-wars are perfectly valid. They allow us to see people's inter-personal skills first-hand. Granted, we're only reading text (and for my opinions on that, just start talking about how gaming chicks on the internet is a great plan), but look at how everyone is jumping through everyone else's hoops. Look at how AMOGs deal with AMOGs in-set. Maybe if you're paying close attention, you'll learn something.

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Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud