So I'm having this problem lately. My roomates, or their friends will have a girl that they are interested in, or already going out with, as is currently the case with my roomate's friend that is staying here with his gf on the way through town.

So, I'll just be me and act alpha and when opportunities to neg show up, I do so, because that's just who I've always been, only now I'm GOOD at it. I DHV at the right times and I make her good by feeling that she's got higher value at the right times. I have done a little bit of light kino, like when I went to take the computer mouse away from her I put my hand out to take it and she didn't pull her hand away, so I lightly put mine over hers and she left it for a second. Then I said something and she pushed me playfully and I totally could have gone places with it, but her bf is right there and I REALLY like the guy.

So, here's basically what it boils down to. This KEEPS happening. Every time that I'm around someone with a gf, I tend to attract there gf better than they do, because they're AFCs and end up not doing everything they need to in a relationship to keep a girl super attracted. Now, that isn't always a big deal, but sometimes (like with the current girl) you REALLY connect with a girl and you KNOW that if you were to take her, you would make her better than she already is and that your pua skills would just run perfectly with her and you could have her and things would be amazing. The problem is, in doing so, you'd be screwing over a guy you really like and that you don't want to piss off, cause you want to be good friends, as well as/or pissing off roomates, co-workers, etc.

Learing to be a PUA is great, but as Spider-man taught us, "With great power comes great responsibility" and being responsible sucks a big fat one sometimes.

I think I'm gonna have to modify this into an opener, or at least a routine. I used an opinion opener version on a girl I used to go out with, that is currently in a relationship, but I'd kinda like to get back with her now that I know what I'm doing. I said something about how "the problem would be that you'd always think about what you've done every time you looked into their eyes" and she totally went mushy. I think its a good way to DHV your good side and then you say "well, with guys that you like anyways "

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

There you go, that's the good that could come of this .

I've been in a situation like this more than once. I can't stand it, but I can't do this to a friend. It's always bro's before ho's for me. I'm not telling you that's how you should live your life, but I've always felt that there should be a certain level of respect with your friend's girls.

Now if the girl's bf is someone I don't know, I'm the guy you'll see making out with her while her bf is in the room. haha. Granted, you're right, there is still guilt there. I can't stand that I have a knack for this type of thing.

As far as my friends are concerned... they always date the type of girl that would be just perfect for me. And in a paradox, in my attempts to keep myself from gaming them, I've been told that I'm cold towards their gfs. They think I don't like them! So do your best to be friendly, but walk the line between friendly and flirting. You could lose friends if you follow the path of seduction with these ones...

In the end, it's really up to you. If this girl is worth losing a friend, then go for it. Otherwise, I think you should reconsider what you might be doing in this situation. I know it sucks getting advice like this, the kind where you're told it has to be your decision. In the end though, it's the best advice to be given. When I ask a question like this, I always hope someone will be able to give me a clear cut answer, but it's never that simple.

I hope this helps you out!

~Muse

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I think I could even stand to go for it and probably lose the guy as a friend, cause I've only known him for a week and I REALLY want this girl, BUT. There's always a fucking but in these situations and mine is a huge one. If I sarge her, then not only do I lose him, but my roomates would think I'm a douche and they might just skip out on me, or at least act much less cool towards me. I could stand the one guy I barely know, but the roomates are just too much, because they are they only people I know in town and they are what has built me somewhat of a social circle, so lose them and I'm back to knowing no one in the whole city.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Personally I never have taken a girl from a friend of mine... not matter how bad they wanted it... I agree, bro's before ho's.

As far as other peoples gf's I feel no guilt in taking them right away... if it's a girl I would consider for a LTR.

I'll be honest, I've broken up perfectly happy relationships before just so I could have some fun... because I wanted the girl and didn't care about either of there feelings. 1 girl in particular, who I had an LTR with then after we broke up... I broke her up with her fiance'... so I could have some fun... we lost touch she got a new bf later... I broke them up to get with her for a couple months again... She's seriously messed up in the head these days... she was a good girl when I met her, now she's a stripper, and a druggy... and I can't help but feel like it's at least partially my fault... like if she wouldn't have met me her life may have turned out diffrently.

Becareful how you use the skills you have learned friends... a life destroyed is a heavy weight for a concios to bear.

I think you have found your answer on your own right here. Sorry man, sometimes life just isn't as simple as we'd like it to be.
I'm starting to realize this just might be a maturity thing. The more I practice game, the more stupid and guilty I feel for doing things like this. I've vowed to myself that I'd never tear up another relationship unless she really deserves better and I'm willing to be that something better.

Rye Lee, there's always more fish in the sea (as they say). Good luck!

~Muse

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Yes, I have slept with someone's g/f. As The Doctor said, if she's with a guy I don't know, then np, I'll go for it. If she's with a guy that I do know but don't like, I'll still go for it. But, if she's with a friend, then I'll back off and just be her friend.

Of course, the first 4some I had was me, my wife, and another couple that were b/f and g/f. So, right there I fucked a girl that had a b/f, but then again, we were all consenting about it too in that instance. But, once she enjoyed me more than she enjoyed him, that hookup never worked out again because though I pleased her better sexually, she was FAR too gone over him, which in the end is a good thing, because it turns out she's fucking HIGHHHHHH maintenance. Something I don't want or need.

But, for the poll question, in your case Rye, I'd still consider it with this girl. I would actually mention it casually to your roomates too, to gauge their reaction. That way, if you figure they wouldn't cut you off or something, you're free to go.

Well, I completely destroyed their body language rapport, but mostly just by being alpha and not even trying to go anywhere. I've decided that if I just sit around and be me and she is more interested in me than him, then she's fair game.

Yesterday we went to the convienience store across the street and as we walked by a car, her bf walked up onto the sidewalk around the car one way and I walked around the other way in the parking lot. I saw her pause for just a fraction of a second and then she chose to follow me.

Then tonight we went up and hung out in my room and I was sitting on the floor and her and her bf were on the bed, then after a bit she sat down on the floor with her body directly facing me, not him at all. Then while we were sitting there listening to some music she was asking if it was what I normally listen to, so I just told her that I listen to a lot of different stuff and listed a few things off, to which each got a bigger smile. Then she tells me she loves the music we're listening to and that she loves some of the art I have in my room (great DHV to have cool stuff like classy art, be it paintings or wooden masks, just something that shows class). So I brought out a pair of pictures that I still have to get framed and she sat there admiring it for a while. So I suggested we head downstairs and play mario kart or watch some tv and she says she'd rather stay up here.

Finally we go downstairs and play some mario kart, all the while we have a good banter going on between us, but mostly me and her, because we are pretty evenly good.

Later we're watching this tv show that I was telling them about and she insisted I show her. She got completely hooked on this show last night and was getting more into it again tonight. Then her bf is sitting on the love seat and she's sitting on one end of the couch and I'm on the other. We both slowly shifted a bit and I didn't realise at first, but we were slowly mirroring, so I mirrored her pretty closely and I saw her start to fidget a bit.

So after her bf had passed out during the show, she was up for a while and I asked if she knew his email address and she said yes kinda hesitantly. Then I said, "Good, you should give me both your emails so we can keep in touch in case you guys end up moving to Vancouver, we can meet up." (we're both planning on taking psychology at a university in vancouver next fall...) So after I said that she got a little eager, then said she'd do it in a minute.

So from everything I'm reading (and there's a lot that would just take even longer to write out, so thank me for not going into excruciating detail) it seems like she is definitely attracted to me. She's very comfortable with me and doesn't mind if I touch her. She seems very bored with her bf and kept telling him he was being weird and annoying. But, she still seems to act like there's something holding her back.

All in all, I hope I get to see her again, I will keep in touch with email and hopefully I'll be able to finish the job in vancouver next fall. But if not, it was an incredible learning experience. I got to watch very closely how much effect just being alpha works, even without doing any techniques. Now I also will be watching even more closely how important body language is. Next time you run a sarge on a person you are spending a lot of time with, watch how their body language changes, as you slowly impress her more and more and make her want you.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Man, you could have fucked her last night. Why do you think she didn't want to leave your room? All in all, I'd say you have a wide open door inviting you in, not only to her pussy, but her life. If it was me, even at this point right here, I'd go for it. She's OBVIOUSLY bored by her b/f and looking for something more exciting, which you are offering her.

good to see everybody here is a good friend.

I would have if we had had more than a few seconds of alone time the whole night. Her bf seemed to have gotten wise to the fact that she was getting very bored and was much more interested in me, so he put himself in the middle a bit. I didn't try to get around that, because like I said, don't want to destroy my whole current life, even for a girl that I like this much. I was thinking about it and I realised that even if this had happened 6 months ago (which wouldn't have happened, cause I didn't have good enough game then) I would have gotten total oneitis over her, but now I only briefly thought about her a bit today while running over game in my head.

The shitty thing is that I tried to talk her into staying till thursday or so (not by asking or anything afc, don't worry, in pua style) but then the weather got shitty and our party plans fell through, so since her dad had booked her flight already, she didn't change it and left this afternoon before I got home from work. Her bf is here till thursday most likely though, so I'm gonna keep watching him and learning who he is, so I can blow him out easier.... I've kinda decided this girl would have a much better life if she were to be with me than him and that she and I are a much better couple, so as long as I don't screw my whole situation up and I don't get him coming after me for vengence, its game on.

One of my favorite moments from the whole time I was half running game on her, was yesterday when we were listening to music in my room. She had asked if the music was what I normally listened to and told me how much she loved it.

So I told her that I listen to all sorts of stuff and listed some artists and when she smiled really big for the last 2, I asked if she knew the last group. She said she did and we talked about how we both heard them the first time at the second to last artist's concerts and then she says about the second to last group, "There earlier work is way better though." So, because I totally agree with her (I fucking love her taste in music, never met a girl with the same taste as me, its hot ) I say, "Yeah, ____ is their best album." She says, "OMG! That's my favorite too!" So here's where it gets fucking good; I look right into her eyes and I say, "_____ is my favorite song."

Her face gets that look someone gets when they're just like, "Woah..." and get kinda light headed. Then she shakes her head and looks at her bf sitting there silent for the past couple minutes, "Who IS this guy?!" and then gawks at me. I just had this small one sided grin and turned away to do something else.

Have I mentioned how much I love becoming a PUA?

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Ooohhh man, I'm glad I'm not in her b/f's shoes right now, lol. You KNOW how he must have felt at that moment, BUT it's his own fault.

So, I'm guessing you have a way to contact her now?

Yeah, the night before she left (I left for work before she was up and was home after she left, so this was the last time I saw her) I said, "Hey, do you have Liam's (her bf's) email?" She got this funny look on her face, so I knew I had set it up well. "Give me your emails so we can keep in touch. So that if you guys make it to vancouver, then we can hook up." So she was happy to give me both their emails. I asked her about a couple of the letters on the second one she wrote and she corrected them right away, so I thought it might be hers, plus it was kinda girly sounding (not that discluded Liam instantly...), so I asked which was which. She said I would have to find out. So yesterday she logged into msn on that email and I said, "I was right " and then we started chatting.

She told me I should move to Vancouver and asked what university I was going to take when I moved there and then when I told her about it, she said she would reconsider going there then, cause it sounds amazing. Lots of just saying stuff indicating that she wanted to hang out again. So, unless I get to see her again before that, I'll just have to keep up the IM game and then when I do see her again, I'll make sure I have an opportunity and I take it. She's the kind of girl I don't want to wait for, but I could, because she's a girl I could see myself falling in love with and that's the whole point imo.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Excellent bro. Honestly, from what you're saying, it sounds like the type of girl I could see you falling in love with. It sounds like maybe she's that interested too. It's really obvious that she IS very interested, regardless. You're definitely gonna have to push the envelope with this girl.