Poet, your argument on this thread can be summed up as:
Translation: I don't like it when you point out my idiocies.

+
Reality: For a self professed non-natural and for a guy who knows very, very little about our little game in general, body language will seem like everything. How could it not? This is all you know. Why are you trying to sell your ignorance? Why not shut your fat mouth and learn a thing or two instead? You keep teaching that game is all about sitting there like a loaf and looking out for visual cues and I'm telling you that you haven't even begun. What you're professing isn't exactly game is it? And to come out here and to lecture newbies and actually be serious about it . . . well, this is a joke. Your brand of game and your actions epitomize this entire section.
Whether you're over me or not is your decision.
Whether I'm over pointing out clowns of the forum is my decision.
I do not wish to kick you off the forum. My intention is exactly as I am doing: Simply pointing out all your bullshit. Shall I bullet point them out to you or do you still wish to keep digging your shit hole? Do you realize that all I've done is highlight what you have already written?

You mentioned the word confidence. . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence
^The above is for other members to see and reflect. One who IS delusional doesn't have the ability to enjoy the the irony.

This is from a guy by the name of phangan:

All the methods are reversed engineered natural PU models:

MM - Reversed engineered Alpha Male of the Group model.

60 YC - Reversed engineered "the sexy 'quite type' seducer" model.

GWM - Reversed engineered "the asshole guy that just gets what he wants" model.

S&A - Reversed engineered "the sweet talker / charmer" model.

afc Adam - Reversed engineered "large social circle" model (from what I heard... never really got into it)

Anyway - my point is that if there is any other type of a natural seducer that you recognize which hasn't been modeled yet - just put it down in a few words and then it can be reversed engineered.

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

You have a very very poor translation. In fact you completely missed the point, I apologize. The point was proving that you didn't attack what I had to say, you attacked me. Not my behavior. Management 101. You correct behavior otherwise it becomes a personal attack, you on the other attack me personally. Congrats though, you are so smart you can't figure out what I am saying.

LOL really this is your come back definitions and insults. WOW! I see you don't deny your arrogance, thank you I appreciate that. You have unmerited confidence to me, because I have seen nothing to merit your confidence with other then hear say about your PHD and etc. That and I have met a lot of PHDs that weren't anything but mules(worked for their grades), smarter then them just the same, they worked at it so they have a plaque that means nothing to me lol. Just like you will have a PHD that means nothing to me.

Oh by the way by your definition I can have plenty of confidence as well, for there are plenty of reasons to merit my confidence, but not by your standpoint right? You don't know me enough to put out these insults with any validity. You don't know enough about how I do things to make any sort of valid point, that is why I find it so funny. You make assumptions off of words and get played into things, and you are clueless about it while you assume you are the smarter man lol. I would love to meet you in person love to, then you'd probably realize a lot about me.

Kasabi, you seem to have this idea that I do nothing in the grand scheme of building attraction or hooking up or whatever, you couldn't be further off. It's not as if I don't go talk to girls or know how to build an initial attraction without talking to them at first. I do a lot more then you realize, and there is a lot more to my game then just noticing attraction, but you can see my style the way you want to. There is a lot more to me then you realize and if you would figure out how to stop making assumptions you might realize that, but judge as you will, claim to be the god of the forum so you can judge us all. Or so it seems, you are the almighty right? Come on here tell us how to do it.

What bothers me the most about you is the fact that your opinion is the only one that is right, your full of it, you have terrible human interaction on here and I doubt that differs in real life. There is more then one way to skin a cat and get over the fact that I tell people how to do one thing. I know that it isn't the completion of courtship understanding body language, but it is worth a hell of a lot more then walking in and saying did you see that fight out side? I can walk up to a girl and ask her about her emotion that I SEE as an opener, making the opener exclusive to her every time.

Am I the end all be all of game? No, and I don't care to be. I teach people what I feel is more important then learning to be someone else. Get over it. It's not like I am selling shit on here. I do teach some things because they were lessons I wish I knew, and they were helpful for me. I'm sure others will feel the same. Everything you do is bitch and complain about how useless a forum is or how I'm a clown, how productive have you even been lately with these actions? NOT AT ALL. Get over yourself dude, you aren't that smart and you aren't that cool. Your some guy that is respected on a forum yippie, hope that is your dream so it is fulfilled.

You aren't as smart as you think, you are some fool gaining a doctorate that plenty of other morons have gained. Even worse, that piece of paper still hasn't showed you the importance of diplomacy, doesn't grant you higher intelligence(as you've proved with your asinine assumptions), and does nothing in the grand scheme of getting girls attracted to you. However, you feel that you are the man and you are this but you aren't shit, that is the shit of all of this. I know I ain't this righteous being, but you on the other hand with your tone prove to be nothing more then a bigger and bigger schmuck with each reply. It's funny that you lack the ability with all your knowledge to step outside of yourself and just read what you write. Try out looking at things from another perspective once in a while, you will become that much wiser.

This is my final reply to you on this thread, hopefully we can cross paths far more peacefully next time.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Instead of arguing on this forum you guys should be out getting pussy

Although I've come across a few women who match your level or hysteria, I'd say that you'd be the first man/boy I've known either in real person or online who regularly exercises this ability. Not so great.

before I read the game, the rules of the game, and numerous body language books i never had a probem with women. hence natural game does exist and should be discussed. some ppl are born with alot more confidence and social skills than others. the artists part of what we do comes from exchanging info and learning more.

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You only live once.

Kasabi, you are quite entertaining. You brought up some valid points:

Valid:

1) Natural does not equal instinctive or do whatever the hell you want to do.

True. In my mind it doesn't deserve it's own title, because those who freestyle their way through situations and actually know what they're doing, freestyle based on their knowledge of, and experience with, psychology. The best definition of natural game is actually the definition of inner game: "Using your own psychology and female psychology when you see fit to get results with women." I think this section should fall under inner game, psychology, etc.

Plus, contrary to popular belief, it does use scripts. As you said: naturals do what they think works best to get laid, which includes repeating what got them laid before = scripted. There is no real difference between natural-based and routine-based pick up artists but one: naturals want to freestyle, "routiners" want to stick to the program. Pros and cons of both approaches are easy to come up with, but they're two sides of the same coin.

2) Newbies default to natural game because their ego is "too big to fail"

Not your literal words, but I get your point. True. I have seen many newbies default to doing what comes natural to them so they don't crush their own egos... HOWEVER... doing what comes natural to you before you deprogram all the Hollywood, momma's well meant words, TV shows, and romantic bull out of your little cranium? Is like cows mindlessly jumping off a cliff over and over and over. Just like in Southpark. First deprogram, then routine OR freestyle.

3) If you want results, follow the steps taken by those who have succeeded.

Although I do agree that there is no actual natural game, that is, an approach that's different from routines = there can be no successful naturals because there is no natural that's different from routine...

Don't assume there are no people who freestyle their way through the dating game succesfully. Every guy/girl who learned to pick up women/men himself/herself (I talk about seducers by nature here, not the oxymoron of learned naturals) has things one can learn from if you observe them. Sure there are beggers, ass kissers, half-rapists, out there who freestyle too... but don't use a biased sample that states all so-called naturals are beggers, rapists, etc. That's saying all blacks are criminals because they're black. Definitely far from true. I see you want to make a point, but do so smoothly my brother or you will piss people off instead of getting them to listen.

Also, using ad hominim attacks by defining naturals as virgins and the like doesn't help make your case dude but the arguments you did present in a non-trolling way were valid.

[/i]

for me natural game is just me trying to game girls without losing my identity as a person or deploying one routine after another. it's also me not trying to sleep with the girl no matter what

don't get me wrong, I have a few tricks mostly that I've come up with myself, some are borrowed of course but ultimately I know I'm not literally a natural gamer in the sense that I was born gaming girls like this because I wasn't. To me it just means I'm being myself, going with the flow of things whilst trying to stay in control.

what more does any pua want to do with a girl other than go with the flow of things whilst staying in control so you get what you want from the girl with her thinking "oh this all just happened how random lololololol

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:p

Dennis reputation points your way 100% correct..

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

I can see where your coming from, there is a lot of terminology and scripted stuff posted, as far as natural game not being "natural" as kasabi put it I disagree, I think that everyone has natural game they just don't know it and are looking in the wrong places, there's alot of specific stuff in these posts and natural game isn't about specifics, such as pickup lines... Natural game is more of general Mindsets, like instead of a creepy pickup line you go up and be lighthearted and in the moment and something will hit you... As long as your not in your head Youl do fine with woman... And with lack of that knowledge people misinterpret what natural game actually is, if your looking for natural game then I'd highly recommend the pickup podcast on iTunes, or aj and Jordan talk chicks podcast, both very helpful and are rich In natural game they keep it basic and understandable, I know how you feel about all those other threads to lol they can be ridiculous, hope your search for genuinely natural game goes well

- Adaption

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

I meant to say I disagree with kalel, sorry for confusion lol

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

I didnt read the entire thread, just the initial one.

But how is the whole section a joke?

Maybe there are some stupid posts from clueless people, and okay, maybe more than normal.

However isnt this the section where we discuss direct game as thats what I saw in the sub heading...

I dont think threads on direct game would be a joke?

Methods like 60YOC, etc. should be getting discussed in here, right?

Just because you are adopting "general mindsets" and mimicking natural behavior, doesn't mean you are at all more natural than a guy who learns lines and mimics indirect puas.

You are on different paths, that will eventually lead to the same point. You are just using a different type of training wheels to learn how to ride the same bike.

A lot of your "natural" general mindsets can be found in non-natural pua material. Inner game has and always will be a very crucial part or all pua. These concepts and mindsets are not specific to "natural game", but are shared by all of us. So the only real difference is that in "natural game" it is sink or swim. Rather than giving the mindsets and general plan of what to do (maybe with some time tested techniques and lines), you are only given the mindsets and are expecting to come up with all else on the spot.

i can see where your coming from but im not sure you fully understood my point, firstly there is quite a difference beacuse people in natural game dont mimic others success but more then learn how to act and create there own, there is no mimicing in natural game or at least not how it was taught to me, and yes there are few techniques but key word is FEW, again with the mindsets that are used in naturual game ... there more like stepping blocks to help you get familiar with how to act around a girl, not so mutch on the actual content that you speak but stuff like vocal tonality and body language and thats as far as you go with remembering anything, for instance , a mindset you use is the little boy... you become playful, light hearted and not serious, from that you get a feel of how things are supposed to be when first interatcing with a woman, now you might be able to have something thought up but you dont get to mutch in your head, basicly mindsets allow you to get a feel of how things are in the interaction beacuse alot of guys dont know what its like or how an interaction goes... theres not a bunch of techniques to remember, just mindsets and the occasional body language and kino,
people who use scripted game go off and say there routine but what if it doesnt go according to plan... then there stuck with a routine that cant go anywhere beacuse it didnt go according to plan, with natural game that doesnt happen beacuse its not a plan its just an outline of what you can do to progress with woman, and as a role model of mine jordan harbinger once said .. its more of a subtracting process to find who you are than an adding process to cover up who you are .. maybe you understand a little better ?

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

There are a lot of gurus that teach this, like Cory Sky or David D. And I respect that. But they understood the evolution of game. Newbies cannot go from afcs to natural puas overnight, they need to grow into it. You version of natural game presupposes that guys are already comfortable approaching and interacting with women, and that all they need is the right mindset. But how exactly does one teach that to someone with A.A or with no social skills? Game is suppose to be teachable. It seem like what you call "natural game", would only work for guys who are already good with women, but don't go out that much. Seeing as how social skills and approaching abilities are a prerequisite.

I agree that being able to approach woman naturally and without gimmicks or routines, should be the end goal of puas. But what I'm saying is that newbies cannot start at the end. They must work toward that goal.

People resist change. If you tell newbies to be themselves, then some may not change at all and stay afcs. I'm not telling them to lose their individuality. I'm telling them to expand their minds and look beyond their internalized limits and notions about women. I want them to change and grow. But if they hold too fast to who they think they are, they will never allow themselves to become who they should be. And if they ever want to excel with women, they must grow beyond their notion of "who they are" and "what they can do", because their beliefs about themselves are contaminated with self-deprecation and low self esteem. So you can't tell someone who is bad with women to "just be himself", because in his mind "himself" is someone who is bad with women.