I'm sure some of you have actually known guys who were naturally good with women. I've known my share so I'll share some profiles here. I'll post more profiles as I remember them but let's start with "The Molester":

I met him in a new condo complex abroad while waiting for a taxi to a club. We chatted a bit and seemed like we shared some commonalities so on the next night out, we went together. His lack of communication skills with the ladies had me doubting right away. Never opened even one. Throughout the night, he'd disappear for some periods of time. Later, I realized that he'd take a girl, one at a time, from our little chat group to suck face on the balcony level that overlooked the dance floor.

His game:

Tell her, "Let's go to the balcony. You can see the whole club, blah, blah, blah." At the balcony while she's lover looking the dance floor, he'd grab her and dry fuck her ass with a raging boner for a few seconds then spin her around to suck face. Over a period of a year, he did this more times than I can remember. The girls who would object to this type of thing would never let him even get close in the first place. He'd just keep moving on to those who'd freeze and reciprocate. Plenty of girls on either side of the fence. Some girls would hop over to the freeze and reciprocate side of the fence as the night moved along.

To those who share a little interest in psychology, how do you think this guy learned this game? I had my suspicions that were confirmed as I learned more about him. He's fingered chicks in planes, buses, trains, etc . . . Surely he's a natural and absolutely more natural than the gurus who simply repackage their same stuff with a 'natural label' on the box. Any of you think you'd have a good time with this game? If so, go for it. But then it still wouldn't be 'natural' to you would it? I think I'll profile the 'Natural Beggar' next: Great game actually . . .

Nice! I am willing to go in on this conversation honestly. I do want to outright say I am NOT a Natural, I am not as good with girls as even good PUAs. When I say natural game it is mostly because I don't use gimmicks or peacock, I simply notice who is attracted to me and go from there. This is how I end up with such a good ratio of initiated conversations to successful interactions, I choose those who are initially attracted to me. Don't get me wrong, I send my fair share of signals to those I am attracted to so that I can build an initial attraction. I even start out conversations to see if I can gain an initial attraction, it is however in my style to let girls open me(which happens pretty frequently as long as I put myself in a good situation), I respond to their overtures.

The few naturals I've met have been those guys that just go out and have fun and girls chase them. The physical profile of those guys is tall and lean(evolutionary peacocking?). Good looking men, but I believe their height was a big factor in their success. It naturally makes them stand out and taller men on average have a larger number of sexual partners(as research has indicated).

The best Natural I know, one that on one occasion grabbed a pair of girls(a & b) at work then go to a club, then that girls(a & b) leaves and he picks up on another girl (c), then on to an after party(where he gets a different girls(d) number), then to the girl(c) he picked up at the clubs house, after messing around with her(c), he then texted the third girl(c) and went to her house and got laid. Honestly I don't see him go for girls at all, he doesn't, they come to him. I think this is one of the key factors with his portion of game.

The three of them have an astounding amount of confidence. They say some pretty direct stuff illustrating their sexual confidence as well. I did notice that they all were early sexual bloomers(just like Strauss talked about in The Game). One of them is a relative of mine and his first sexual experience was at 13.

It sounds as if that gentlemen used a divide and conquer tactic, how did he choose girls? What was his success rate, by that I mean how many girls did he have to approach to do this?

I know I can learn a lot from you Kasabi, and I really do appreciate a lot of the information you do provide. I am ALWAYS willing to learn, even if I am a close minded ass. What I am really saying is I would be very happy to just read and learn. Please please create what you would consider the most valuable thread in this section and I would be very happy.

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I'm still wating for Natural Beggar so I can repackage it and sell it...

The best "natural" I've ever known had the same effect on men as women (besides the sexual part). He was very good at keeping his head in a conversation, and responding to other people in such a way that they'd feel like the only person in the room. That was the one huge difference I noticed between himself and myself early on--he would pay attention to someone, and I would pretend to pay attention while I thought of the next thing I was going to say.

I can't tell you if he had any specific lines he would repeat in order to escalate. I'm sure he did, but I am not aware of them (I was too busy thinking of what I was going to say next to pay attention... yep...). What I do know is that he was fearless when it came to initiating physical contact, as well as fearless about asking girls to come somewhere with him (isolation). He got rejected often, but it never phased him, as he would be so confident that the girl would laugh it off, and he'd laugh it off, and they'd just continue on until he got what he wanted or saw another hot girl he wanted to talk to.

I suppose I'd have to say he learned by not being afraid to try, and since he didn't look like a circus freak, he gained confidence through success.

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- Lux et Veritas -

I've known and learned from a few naturals in my time. The most important thing I'd say was my idea of what a natural was and the reality of a natural. It leads me to realize there was no one best way to go about things.

Staying present and going after what you want will get you beyond many obstacles you may face. Where as most pick up that is widely taught plays everything as though it is a chess game, which contains a nearly endless set of variables and requires a higher level of mastery before you are able to get the results you want, which is a step backwards in my opinion.

You're "molester" profile reminds me of the fearless Nubian immigrants you see in the club. They might fail 20 times, but they aren't deterred and they aren't going home alone.

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Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.

So maybe most of you haven't spent too much time with naturals afterall. What most of you describe are AVERAGE guys. The average guy goes to a party and chats with girls. Sometimes he gets lucky. If he's decent looking and talkative and seems approachable, the girls might even get 'grabby' with him. The average guy will find a girl he likes and maybe ask her out. He might tell a friend about it. The friend might tell the girl. Then the two might meet up and go out. The mis-perception that a talkative average guy is a 'natural pua' is probably another reason why this section is filled with so much bs and probably why this crowd makes an easy target for the (marketing) gurus.

One difference between the average guy and the pua is the hook. Regardless of whether you define him 'natural' or 'vegan' or 'organic', a pua has a hook. . . .something that he knows will catch the girl. The molester dry ass humped everybody; he is no average guy, (a totally f'd up weirdo but he got results) and so was the 'Beggar'. By the time that the Beggar graduated from high school, he hooked up with more than half the girls in our social group. He was nerdy, didn't play any sports, but played the guitar well.

His game:

Like his nick name would suggest, he begged. Well at first he asked . . . then begged . . .then demanded, then apologized, then pleaded, then threatened, then begged, and begged some more. Now I know you've read a lot about 'beggars' and how this game doesn't work; the problem is that most afc's DO NOT beg. Most are COCKY about their non-existing game and send flowers, and ask to 'date' or 'become boyfriend/girlfriend'. Then they say shit like, "take your time, blah, blah, blah, I ain't going nowhere. . .I'll wait for you." - this is some egotistical cocky shit. . . lol . . as if this smooth game will win her over in a few years?

The Beggar on the other hand was a pure and natural beggar. He begged like the tattered guys who used to wash windshields during rush hour at the pre-Giuliani Lincoln Tunnel. They lunge, they wash, they ask, then they threaten that they won't wipe off that greasy water. Then they smile, and ask again . . . then they walk away and you don't know if the traffic will move while his back is turned. Then he comes back smling and goes, "Come on, I'm only kidding. I wouldn't do that." And completes the process. Then what do you do? You pull out your 5.

^This was the Beggar's hook. Sure, it made him look like a knucklehead, (he'd do the act in front of anybody) but he was a knucklehead who got laid . . . consistently.

I know what you mean that some guys are good with ladies and even people but that doesn't make them naturals. I am that type of person, I enjoy success with women because of my personality. My buddy that is a Natural, isn't that type of guy. He's dated runway models, photo models, just fly girls in general, and normally he just hooks up with them on the night he meets them, then normally ditches them, for the new girl he meets at work, or the bar, party or where ever.

That guy for me is a true natural. His numbers are on par with most "Legendary" Naturals, consistently hooks up with multiple girls weekly. Easily triple digits yearly, since I've known him(3 years now). Perhaps my definition and yours differ, but if you met this gentlemen I believe you'd agree that he is a Natural. My relative also enjoy similar success sleeping with girls, but may not be your idea of a Natural, which I can understand.

I've definitely met "Natural PUAs" guys that were good with girls based on their own personal gimmicks and behaviors. Which works, but I don't consider them Naturals, I consider them above average with girls.

Another friend of mine, enjoys similar success to the true Natural I know. He is a guy that is IMO a Natural developing, by that I mean always had success with girls but now he enjoys A LOT of success, I wouldn't even say he tries he just does it. He does tend to go into relationships. When he exits he hits it with 2-3 girls a week until he finds the next girl he wants to date. I don't know whether you'd consider him a Natural, but I do. Perhaps you can clarify YOUR definition of a Natural?

What's the difference between a guy that never tries and enjoys constant success and a guy that hits on every girl until he finds success? I mean I went to a club the other night that was a MEAT Market and by your definition 3/4 of the guys were Naturals. I bet if you watched them in action you'd completely disagree that they were Naturals, even by your beggar standards.

My definition of Natural is a guy who enjoys constant success with women without any help of trained behavior, a long term success rate, and without any effort. Sex seems to be meaningless to these guys because it is in abundance. I'm not talking about the ladies man that constantly has girls around because sex means everything to them so they always try, I'm talking about the low key guy that just has fun and knows what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. It's Natural and normal to hook up with girls even with zero training, but formed behavior based on past success.

It's such a fuzzy line and there really has never been a true definition, everyone can have their own idea of a Natural. To me it is way above and beyond a Ladies man or a guy that has to try. It is a guy that just has shit happen for him it seems and he as well as most people around him understand why, but regardless it happens everywhere he goes.

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That may be true! Funny, that is the guy from college that pulled a couple girls every week, but perhaps that is average. Huh. I always thought it was a lot. But, true, no consistent hook.

poeticlyskuac, what are the hooks your natural friends employ? There has to be some sort of common thread for what we're talking about.

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- Lux et Veritas -

what sounds interesting to me is the relationship between all these ''naturals''... maybe you can make some points on this ?

it is true that afc people are cocky .. they really believe in that hollwywood style of romance and ''pickup''. I told some guys that stuff did not work - however most of them wouldn't believe me , if i would talk to them or give them advice it wouldn't register ..... it's just outside their reality to take advice of someone else.

pua and AFC have 1 thing in common .. both are cocky and believe too much in themselfs almost to the point where it becomes ignorant.

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kasabi those guys that you describe went through a trial and error period(painful sometimes), trust me, again, i am a natural, my boys are naturals...I wish i knew about the community 15 years ago, and not 2 months ago... A natural with his style and all this pua knowledge will be destructive as long as he just compliment what he already does(because he will understand the science behind what he naturally does, which is what pua gurus teach and write about),now if he start changing already successful to this routine he will fail, i learned that the hard way...My friend he goes to the bar buys a drink, just stand like a freaking statute in a dance floor with the bear up(all the shit puas say not to do), girls come up to her start talking to him, i freaking don't understand it... I am talking hb 10s, then my other natural friend, he dances good kind of like michael jackson, goes to a groups of girl put his hand out, get disss about 9 times, but there is that one, that stays with him, he does not escalate much, gets her number and text her was sup? what you doing? can you talk? calls her, talk to her, goes to her house bangs, then he says my life is complicated right now i just want to be friends... Of course once you say that to the girl they want to marry you, women are crazy... Now me i dance escalate as much as possible,(make out and touching) sometimes finger in the dance floor, take them to the car, they drive me to my car, do my bj routine...Anyways, you talk to my boys about pu, they look at me cross eyes and say" just be yourself" i come out like a crazy man, when i tell them about the community..


a natural lerning pua:Is like a successful street fighter, learning jujitsu, and mua thay all that can do is improve his game...

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Na, Naturals don't really have a trial and error period, they don't do anything and girls come to them. They get better with girls but they never were bad with girls is the best way to put it. Natural have an expectation that is merely fulfilled, they aren't cocky or arrogant, they are confident which is a very fine line.

In my personal experiences they like hooking up with girls because they are good at it, we like to do things we are good at, but they don't necessarily have a sex addiction or care all that much about sex. It isn't really about that for them, they are fulfilling their natural instincts.

Skills you don't fulfill my definition of Natural Skills. Sorry bro, not trying to diss ya, just don't consider you a Natural. You consider yourself a Natural but you learned your behavior through trial and error, they don't have an error period. By the end of their first semester in college they fucked 20 girls, messed around with half the school, and it is just an expectation. It just came naturally to them, you didn't describe this type of beginning. They don't have painful times, how can you have pain when you are always successful? They always were good with girls, they do however improve and become great with girls. This is a distinct difference, Naturals just know when to do things, how to do them, and what to do. That is how they operate, situations change but it is still NATURAL for them. No need for gimmicks or one tactic, and I am serious when I say they don't just say or do one thing, they are themselves and girls like them for them, they know it and take it from there.

I don't understand all the attachment to considering yourself a "Natural", they have a learned behavior but they never really learned it because they needed to, they just gained successful habits. It's fine to believe it but being good with girls doesn't put you on the same playing field as Naturals. Naturals have something we don't, you can emulate them and enjoy a serious amount of success but that doesn't change the fact that you will never be a Natural.

Skills I'm not trying to diss you, you are likely far better with girls then I am, but I very much doubt that you and your boys are Naturals. I'd literally say that the percentage of Naturals in this world is .01% meaning one in ten thousand at best males. I'd even doubt that. Naturals are legends, they aren't a ladies man, or a pretty boy, or a PUA they are men who do things we can't do without training or trying. Guys that have the right "smell", look, smile, eye contact, and follow through the phases of courtship flawlessly while keeping their defense shields down and they do this without an error period.

Put it this way Hugh Hefner isn't a Natural and he's had more gorgeous girls than we can dream of. Any guy famous isn't really a Natural, they use their fame as a crutch which works since women love to say they fucked a famous guy. Natural game is needing nothing but a t-shirt and jeans and owning the ability to be banging the hot girl at the laundry mat, in that 45 minute span that your clothes dry only to never care to see her again, without effort or training. That is what a Natural does, he doesn't need time to build comfort it is instant, he elevates instantly.

At least I don't see many people fulfilling my definition of a Natural. You Skills don't fulfill my personal definition of a Natural. Your a guy who just like anyone in PUA had a trial and error period to get good with girls. Most guys go through this, PUA guys just commit to an accelerated learning curve. I don't consider myself a Natural and on every night I go out and there are a fair amount of attractive girls, I pull a number or more(if I want) with ease. I know the steps I follow them, I read body language very well and know when they are attracted, and I know how to stimulate arousal. However these are learned behaviors for me, I already had a fair amount of girls attracted to me, that was never the problem. The problem was lacking the NATURAL instincts to follow through the steps on the girls attracted to me. You lacked this as well.

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poetic man the more i read your stuff the more confuse i am, so basically a natural is not a player, i thought a natural was a player, but you are saying they were born knowing what to do, not trial and error, how can that be possible, but i think i know what you are saying....p.s i bang way more than 20 girls in college, not even close...

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I mean like first semester, meaning in your first semester every week you slept with at least one new girl. Not in college, but in the first semester, way different. As school went on it accelerates and by the end you slept with 100s of girls.

Sorry bro, I haven't really organized my thoughts on Natural but I don't consider to many guys Naturals, I do come across a lot of Players and they are generally better with girls then PUAs. Naturals to me are something I give very few people credit for, and like I said you are likely a lot better with girls then me but I doubt I'd put in you in the Naturals category.

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A player is more of a phase a guy passes through on their seduction journey. I'd consider a player a person who is JUST concerned (and probably consumed as well) with hooking up. A PUA and a natural can both be players.

Whereas I think the biggest distinction between a natural and a PUA is the natural figures out what works for him early on and doesn't really deviate or think about why what he's doing works. It just works.

The PUA will go through the same process, but is unsuccessful at first and attempts to find all the ways that work. More importantly he will be more likely to know why (or think he knows why) something works.

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Hi, I'm A. Fahren and I'm an author. I love to travel, socialize, and am hopelessly addicted to movies. That's about it.

Whereas I think the biggest distinction between a natural and a PUA is the natural figures out what works for him early on and doesn't really deviate or think about why what he's doing works. It just works.



thank you you youwish, that is what i thought, then i am a natural, poetic confusing the hell out of me...

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Ok some of the naturals I know:
The Social Natural:
This guy since he is 13 used to approach girls while he was walking and talking with friends both male or female, ask them something about their accessories or their clothing, touch it and them and tell them how he loves it and want to buy one to his little sister. they were almost always older then him, and he got confident doing it over and over and approaching about 500 girls in two weeks. He is fucking ugly but got good game and is really high status man that has many many friends. He is also one of my best friend and according to him his success is based on his high confidence. He can be a SNL type of guy but he is more of a LTR type of guy.
He is a born leader, dominant in every convesation his speech abillitys are awesome and he is the type of guys that organize all the partys.
The Cocky Natural:
Well, this guy is... very... very... cocky, like crazy cocky. He can talk all day about how awesome he is and how high status man he is, but not in a really cocky way. He would do it in a funny way and if someone decides to insult him he will do it in a defensive and an offensive way. He lacks of confidence but his success is based on his assertiveness and stubbornness and his "animal behavior" which is creating a lot of sexual tension something like 60's method, not talking to much, a lot of kino and physcal games, he loves the dancefloor of course. His attractivness doesn't last too long so he is more of a SNL type of guy than a LTR type of guy. He is also a born leader, dominant in conversations and he is physically threating because he is tall and strong.