When a woman is misbehaving extremely, is it a bad idea to deliver a verbal smackdown before freezing her out? To be funny and scathing but, nonetheless, to mete out a reaming before the resounding slam of the gate?

Because of the emotional seesaw involved, might this be better, in some situations, than a freezeout with no smack? Not for a three day or week long freezeout, but for the "goodbye" freezeout when the woman is misbehaving and the set is dead?

I've done this before to good results-- the smackdowns have been withering. The woman has never reinitiated contact. The pride factor probably prevents her from doing so.

But when *I* have reinitiated contact, in every case she has been receptive. That is to say, six months later.

Thoughts?

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

I don't think that a verbal smackdown is ever in order.

Why?

Because it shows that you are a) affected and b) emotional. And I'm not just talking about flying off the deep-end here. I am also talking about any big emotional or intellectual "to-do" where we sing kumbaya at the end of it.

The purpose of a freezeout is to show her that you will not reward her bad behavior with your attention and affection. The freezeout is punishment enough in itself. Besides, a freezeout is cool, calm, controlled (in control). On the other hand, an emotional diarrhea spasm is NOT in control.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

You could very well be right.

I do think that sometimes people richly deserve to be told to fuck off in no uncertain terms. It's not just a dominance thing. Some people go through life experiencing no consequences for their actions. Not that it's necessarily your problem or responsibility to correct them.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

i agree, spandrel. absolutely.

people occasionally (men, women, children, strangers, coworkers, bosses, who-the-fuck-ever) need to be CORRECTED for their actions! that is undeniable! if we don't "correct" people that exhibit bad behavior toward us, they are going to repeat it over and over...

that being said, there is a difference between:

* correcting someone:

- example: a one sentence statement - (clearly, calmly, concisely, and cooly) saying "I expect to receive the same respect that I give to the people in my life." (then be done with it, freezeout!)

* everything else:

- example: (yelling, lecturing, crying, arguing, getting loud, getting nasty, swearing, bitching, complaining, "talking about feelings", etc etc etc) all of this is not cool, because it shows your LACK OF CONTROL and your EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT and quite frankly "girlishness".

you had originally asked about a verbal smackdown, and if it is every okay before a freezeout to do it? i would say that it depends on your definition of a "smackdown".

if your version of a "smackdown" is like example #1 above: "a calm, cool, truthful, strong, manly statement" - then ABSOLUTELY YES, it is okay.

however, if your version of a "smackdown" is like example #2 above: "yelling, berating, talking down to, disrespecting, arguing, ever being willing to discuss the issue further, bitching" - then ABSOLUTELY NO, because you would be acting like an emotional woman at that point.

and make no mistake, a well-placed "i expect the same level of respect that i give others in return" delivered to a woman will be more effective (and devastating) than any of the emotional junk discussed above.

food for thought.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

You know, I can see what you're saying here but I do think I sort of disagree with you.

I think that there are some situations where peoples' behavior is so extreme that they need to be told off in no uncertain terms. Not yelling at them or anything like that but laying it on the line, perhaps in a scathing but funny way.

Again I've had women be very receptive after that followed by several months of could shoulder. Whether or not it's ethical or whatever is a question for... well, ethicists.

The problem is that they may become addicted to this sort of thing and will attempt to provoke you in order to elicit it.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

Spandrel, Mack is right. If you confront in a calm, collected way and then freeze out, it gets the message across much much better, and makes you look good in the process.

If you do the "scathing but funny" thing, you're feeding into her emotions. For women, emotions are like drugs - that's why they love drama so much. When you do "scathing but funny", she doesn't remember what she did wrong so much as the emotion attached to it. Women basically THINK in emotion. That's why when you hear a woman tell a story, she talks about everything except the damn story. Everything's connected and it all has a certain shade of emotion attached to it.

When you do it your way, in her head, she's essentially saying "well, yes, I did that thing, but the way he responded made me feel bad, and that made me...blah blah blah blah". All she remembers is how you made her FEEL.

Do it how you want, but I think you'll find that "calm & collected" works much better than "scathing but funny".

I do see his point. I guess the bottom line for me is that I'm very nice up to a point. If they misbehave past that point, they can have a taste of the whipping stick.

If they want to come back and behave after that, fine. If not, also fine-- in fact, even more fine, because I have other options who haven't misbehaved.

I've been involved in D&S for many years. My attitude is that it's simply my way or the highway. Those who refuse to behave on their own, or modify their behavior based on correction, are simply not going to receive my time.

Of course, the logical extension of that is that saying something takes time and energy.

He's right that if you're looking for a woman to come back the silent SPAM is certainly better. After a certain point though you just get sick and tired of dicking around with them. One advantage of the smack appears when you don't really want them to come back.

Trust me, if I were to mention 1/10 of what's gone on with this particular person, there would be a chorus of "DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT." Just not worth bothering with.

Very funny also that your avatar is right in the middle of delivering a smack to his droogies-- but of course, look where it got him!

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

Spandrel,

I would say that as long as you are consistent and don't back down, that's the most important part.

If you need to "lay the smack down" (which I have dozens of times, lol) just make sure that you truly believe in and stand by what you say. So at least she will see that you mean business.

The point is, you can "lay the smack down" without being hurtful. I'm telling ya, once you "hurt a woman's feelings"...it's done. It's over at that point. She will forever remember how you made her "FEEL"...regardless of who was right or wrong.

Never - EVER - make her feel unsafe or intimidated. Be careful about yelling. That shit can be terrifying for women. A big strong man, yelling at her, her mind will start to dream up scenarios where you might hurt her, hit her, not protect her. You see the danger in that?

Be a dick if you have to. I'm guilty of being a dick. Just don't be a frightening or hurtful dick.

Good luck to you in however you decide to handle it.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

I hate to requote posts without adding something, but you hit it on the nose so perfectly, it needs to be restated for effect.

I like it that you put quotes around that. I see what you did there.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

lol, did you see me doing the hand gesture?

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

99% of the time I suspect that you could shout "IBBITY BIBBITY BOO" in a woman's face and it wouldn't matter.

Hell, in many cases, men slap them around and behave in horrible ways and it doesn't matter.

Increasingly I think that their decision process occurs based on events that happen internally, and that external events may not have as much impact on it as we would like to hope.

You know, if they misbehave, I really don't think it's a bad idea to tell them how it is. If they don't like it, fuck 'em. Your mileage may vary (YMMV) but I personally am sick of dealing with bratty little girls.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.