The situation is this: I met this girl in my country a few days before going to university in England for 2 months. She's 17 and I'm 20. I've never had a gf before (I'm learning the game), and as far as I know she didn't have a bf either. She's a good Catholic girl, HB7, sociable and sometimes trying to be alpha. She's also a leader of a Christian rock band consisting of girls only.

Managed to make her attracted to me, and maintained the attraction online. She was chasing me pretty much all the time: initiating contact, proposing talking on SPAM, being jealous about other girls that I was telling her about, being excited about me coming back, imaging that we meet, etc.

Things changed when I came back. I messed up the 1st date. It was just boring. But then I fixed it - I was invited for a rehearsal of her band and I was fun, dominant and managed to make her a bit jealous. Then I proposed the 2nd date. It was like:
(...)
Her: Errr... I don't know...
Me: We're meeting up and there's no discussion!
Her: Hahaha...
And eventually she ended up coming terribly late, because she wasn't quite sure if we're meeting up. I seriously told her off on the phone. She went out even though her mommy didn't let her go, was apologising me and giving me lots of iois and eventually we ended up cuddling, then I walked her home holding her hand and we kissed goodbye.

Here is when I started making mistakes:
After a few days we met again at my home, and again we were cuddling and kissing. But this time I came off as needy. She was shit testing me by standing up to check the time in her phone and then she was sitting like a meter away from me and then I was like: "don't run away from me..." - embarrassing, I know...

Also I seemed to had forgotten how to flirt online (but I've already fixed that ) and she wasn't initiating contact that often. She started answering me like after 3 mins with one word etc, rarely texting me. She's not that much into me any more.

Yesterday we met again at my home and I decided to try out another tactics. She sat down on the chair and me on the sofa. The plan was not to do almost any kino, unless she does something I could reward her with it. Now I'm thinking that this might have been even worse, because although I was confident she might have thought that I wasn't persisent enough, or didn't have enough courage to say "come here". What do you think? (But we kissed and hugged goodbye)

I said I wanna see her on Sunday, she said we'll see - it's like that all the time.

I'll still be in my country for 1 month and I really want to make her my gf officially. Even if she loses her interest when I go away, that would massively improve my inner game.

But now I'm just chasing her all the time. She feels too sure, and also probably repelled a bit by my clinginess. What should I do make her chase me? Freezeout would take time... Should I try to make her jealous? How should I send her mixed signals? It's clear to her that I'm attracted to her, and that I see her as a gf, so meeting other girls wouldn't work either, would it?

Also what is a good way of handling these shit tests? What kino to do in order to build the attraction, rather than be clingy? (I don't wanna bang her, I just wanna make her attracted to me again).

Short answer is, STOP CHASING HER!

You know that moment when you think:

'hmm I haven't spoken to her for x amount of time, and she hasn't spoken to me, maybe I should speak to her'

So then you speak to her? DON'T DO IT! She is thinking the exact same thing only she doesn't give in because she is testing you. Whatever works on you will work on her, just think of it as women have much more natural game.

If you aren't s in a relationship ignore her.

Her ignoring you sends you crazy and you end up chasing her, therefore
You ignoring her will end up sending her crazy and her chasing you.

You don't have to convince her that the sun shines out of your ass. You just need to convince her that you aren't 100% sure if it shines out of hers.
HOWEVER

If you are in a long term relationship LTR then you should react differently. She is playing games. games in a LTR are a no no. If you want to have the relationship the way you want it be a man call her on her shit tests and tell her to sort it out. She will respect you for it.

To do this you need to give an ultimatum. Show her that you are prepared to walk away from it if she isn't prepared to stop playing games. (LTR ONLY)

Again Mytt8 makes a very good point!

You always have to be prepared to take a L...There are more women in the world then men for a fucking reason....If your women is trying to be alpha you don't allow that to happen! The only reason hot bitches give men shit because no one ever really talks to them like they should talk to them...Talk to them like you are better than them which you are...Cause the only reason you even like her because she is hot and has a vagina...All women have that which makes none of them special to me.

Men are better because we have charm, swagger, personality, strength, etc...You can name soooo many things a man is because he HAS to be to pick up women...Ladies just need beauty and nothing else...Women truly don't know shit what men want...They only think they know what we want but you have to tell her...Being honest and blunt is the best way to go....You will meet more women if you are always honest and just tell them what you think

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Thanks for the replies

That's more or less what I've been trying to do. But ignoring her or punishing doesn't work. Eventually she texts or calls me and everything returns to normal and then she tests me again.

For example she doesn't reply to my text, so I ignore her and 2 days later she texts me and asks what's up. I guess that I should ignore the "what's up" but I don't think these periods of ignoring, help the attraction.

We met on Wendesday and she didn't wanna kiss me hello (is that how you call it in english? ). She said "not today because I'm not in the mood". No, she really had a bad mood because of something that happened at school and I know that, but that doesn't explain this iod.

And I've given her signals that I might walk away but that caused her to test me even more.

I'd love to talk to her about it explicitly but it's not quite a LTR yet. I'd love to say to her next time: "Look if you don't wanna hang out with me any more then let's stop because I feel that I'm imposing myself on you; but if you still wanna hang out it's your move". But is this gonna have any effect?

I don't understand what's happening in her head. She didn't use to be like that. I doubt that she's found some other guy. I suppose someone might have given her a great advice on how to game me or even worse someone might have told her that I want sex (she's VERY Catholic) - but I want a relationship!

The thing is that people on the forum say so many different things:
- ignore her, wait for her move if she's interested, play it cool, show that you're prepared to walk away
- adress the issue, be alpha
- be there for her, she's 17, she's got moods
- ignore the shit tests and be funny and flirtatious like nothing happened

What's the best option? I wanna be consistent. I'm prepared to take a risk because the current situation already sucks. What do you think about adressing it the way I put it?

Women are sooo strange sometimes. It's like they know when you pretend you've lost interest and when you've really lost it! This happened to me recently with a HB8. I ended up chasing her, realized what I was doing, jumping through hoops and so on and decided to correct my behavior. I got a little bit better response from her, but not quite what I wanted. I started successfully gaming other chicks, literally let this one go, and now she's all over me, initiating 100% of all contact!
You're in a hurry to make her your GF cuz you're leaving. She can sense it. Just walk away dude. Stop contacting her. When she asks you to hang out, don't just say yes. Tell her you can't that day, you can do it another day. Tell her to call you to set up this other day, if she doesn't, let it go, don't call her. Just literally move on, like really. Make a decision you're moving on. Game other chicks. You're far too young to bee stuck on this girl. She'll be after you, I promise you that. But first she must realize she's lost you.

So there's no other way?

I bet she'll call me on Sunday because they're playing an important concert. How do I behave?

If I behave like not interested but still friendly, she'll put me in the friendzone.

If I behave like not interested and busy all the time, she'll sense that I'm doing it on purpose, take it as another test and ignore me. My behaviour would probably confirm to her whatever doubts she has about me that make her test me this way.

If I decide to move on she should somehow know that it's her fault and that I was still interested. That's why I thought about adressing it. But instead of saying that I move on I'd give her this last chance.

When I read similar posts on the forum - people don't contact each other for weeks and test each other much more seriously - that's why I'm still asking about some other ways of handling this situation.

If you sound busy, she may ignore you for a while, but then when she sees you're serious, she'll start jumping. I understand you wanna get with her before you leave, but I don't think there is anything you can say that will resonate with her. Maybe you can try something else instead. Don't contact her until she contacts you. For example, if she calls on Sunday, be in a good mood when you answer, sound happy. If she asks you to come, tell her it's a little short notice and you don't know how long your previous engagements will last, so you can't promise you'll make it. Then show up, with a friend and preferably another HB or two. Don't pay too much attention to her, socialize with other people, other girls! After the concert don't come up to her, wait for her to come to you. If she doesn't, too bad for her. She might feel you're acting differently, and if she mentions it, deny it and say you're just spending some quality time with people you care about, because you're leaving. If she wants to hang out afterwards, you tell her you promised other people you'd hang out with them, but if she really wants to hang out you can do it -insert date and time-. I don't know if this will work, but if you're in a hurry you can try it.

Thanks

Actually I meant that she's gonna call me to tell me how it went. I can't go there because it's in a city ~500km away.

However there's another idea. I'll probably be organising my birthday party and playing a concert with my band there. But that's next Sunday. So I could do it there and I totally can see it working.

She also invited me to see her band play in a church next Wendesday but... flirting with girls in a church...

If I move on now... well I don't really have any other girls to game here in my town, at least if we're talking about gf candidates (that's what I'm interested in). There's no point in starting again with another girl now, to end up on SPAM again for the entire next term. So that would mean 3 weeks without girls!!!

So I guess I'll try your idea or see if someone else comes up with something.

But suppose we meet up for a date after this whole process. Shouldn't I at some point just be serious and tell her that I want her as a gf?

I guess I don't really wanna be told what to do, but rather what to project and what's happening in her head. Did she lose interest? Or does she feel that she's in control and she's just playing with me? Or might it be the case that someone told her how to game me? I thought of talking to one of her friends who I trust. Maybe that could shed some light on that.

Oh and I'm saying I can totally see your idea at work because it's already worked for me once - at that rehearsal after our 1st date.
What also worked was being pissed off at her (like at the 2nd date) - I guess because that creates challenge for her, and that makes her not confident. And that's why I think if I let her know explicitly that I'm gonna move on if she doesn't stop (but seriously!) should do the job.

Why? Who cares?

It's sometimes good to deliver a pimpslap before cutting them off, especially if they have been ignoring you or waffling-- You break up with THEM.

Then ignore them. Really. Ignore the shit out of them. Then MAYBE let them come crawling. If they don't come crawling, fuck 'em. Nothing wrong with throwing another cast 2 months down the line-- you know that fish is in the water. But it needs to accept the hook.

With IM it's sort of easy. You just require that they input twice as many lines (or three times) as you do.

They can't sense that you're doing it on purpose.

The earlier you call them on manipulative bullshit, the better.

Another effect of this sort of thing is that it throws the detritus out of your life. Some women are dead air. Fuck 'em. Life is too short and you need to be getting what you want.

If you aren't going to get it by exerting dominance, you certainly aren't going to get it by being a pussy.

Trying to get one woman who is playing hard to get is a huge waste of time and almost never works anyway. Play the field.

The message: They must submit to the domination or leave.

Thanks

That's what I'm talking about. When I break contact I want her to know that it's her fault.

I understand the whole mindset behind moving on, but the thing is that I care. I really like her and this ignoring hasn't gone really serious. But we all know where it's leading.
Moving on to me is giving up. Well sometimes it's the best option, but it's also the last one that you can try.

My current plan: wait for her to initiate contact. If she texts me - ignore it. If she calls, call back later and tell her that I'm not talking to people who ignore me. She isn't gonna like it and we'll see how she'll be trying to fix that. If by meeting up - we'll meet and I'll be honest but acting like I don't care any more. I'll tell her that I used to want her as a gf, but now... It should challenge her. But if this doesn't work out, well then obviously I'm gonna listen to you guys.

Just please if I'm about to do something AFC, warn me! Or if you see any other way.

IMO the best way to avoid AFC behavior is to keep more than one woman on the stringer. When you get one, step up your game with other women. Your confidence from the one will make you seem all the more interesting to the others.
The "Never giving up" thing is the worst idea ever. It wastes your time, and not only does it not put any pressure or onus on her, it is a CHALLENGE to her to see how much hell she can put you through.

been there done that bullshit.

I still reflexively get into all this shit. I let my shit slip for about a week and it has cost me bigtime. If I'd been reading PUA I would never have let it happen.

There are several reasons women like the "strong, silent type."

Not least is the fact that if you keep your fucking mouth shut you say nothing wrong.

I bolded the AFC thoughts in your post. They are rampant. Get a grip, man. Don't go discussing your "feelings" with her, show her what you feel, trust me, she gets the message. When you DISCUSS your feelings with her, you empower her by showing how drastically AFFECTED you are by what she does and how she does it. Do not fall into this trap. Stick to your guns. If she ignores you, never talk to her again, and move on. Do you really want to "BE WITH" someone who ignores you or whatever? You need to think about how you can reframe this situation to get your control back, not how you can discuss your feelings with her or behave in certain ways to get her back.

Focusing on maintaining your frame = PUA
Focusing on keeping her = AFC

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Somebody needs too go sarging... Don't let this woman do this too you, there's others out there, drop her and keep going, on to the next one

I'm writing to say thanks. Apparently I had to learn it through experience.

You know what happened? She didn't come for my birthday party because she got ill! We were arranged to meet up today, and she didn't show up. Her phone doesn't work because it's broken. Her mom took her computer and won't give it back until Easter.

I doubt that she's lying about these things but it doesn't matter now.

Her friend told me that she's having "bad days" recently. I said I don't know what to do anymore. She said "let go". ...like the best advice ever...

Now I understand that the moment when I lost my frame was the moment when I lost her. Instead of thinking how to get her back I should have been thinking how to get the dominance back. If you don't have the dominance, she does whatever she wants and there's no attraction and you're chasing.

But regarding this mindset: In your opinion does it apply to girlfriends? Because surely you can attract anyone, and fall for anyone if you really want to - but only certain girls suit you so well that you think of a relationship with them.

I'm pretty sure that she'll try to get my attention back sooner or later. I'll be gaming other girls and ignoring her but I hope there's nothing AFC about giving her another chance eventually in a few weeks if she earns it and if I don't find a better girl? - just because she suits me so well.

Oh and regarding the "bad days" and this sort of things - How do you talk with your gf about that without falling into the friend zone?

You don't.

Don't talk.

Act.

Women talk.

Men act.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!