Not sure if this point has been made as I don't read the forum much, but this occurred to me and I wanted to share it.

The difference from what I've seen between natural/guys who "gets" pickup and people only learning pickup is knowing when to pull back. A lot of guys tend to keep pursuing to a point where it puts the female off. The thing that I've noticed to be the most effective with me is if the guy talks to me as a friend, we build rapport, he starts showing interest, then he pulls back.

For example he's approached me as if he's a friend so he's dropped my guard a bit, then randomly hits on me or talks about his interest in other women (can work either way), usually he's shown some interest and built rapport, then says something along the lines of this:

"I usually let girls make the move. I'm more concerned with working on myself, because if you work on yourself rather than others, then people come to you. I don't need a woman because I know I can get one at any time. If I am interested in a girl I'll let her know (by flirting etc) but then if she wants to take it further it's up to her, the balls in her court"

(I mean obviously guys say different things depending on who they are but it's always something like this, key parts would be "I don't need a woman" "Its up to her", and being indirect. If you've been hitting on her up to that point unless she's retarded she can put two and two together right? You can also use kino during this, it's even more effective cause the women gets frustrated knowing she has to make the move.)

So why does this work, it's a risk right? Well girls get hit on all the time so as soon as you're doing this you're DHVing yourself, putting yourself in a higher category from other men. You're saying, I'm interested but I'm not going to take shit from you/play your games. I'm giving you PERMISSION to make a move, but you have to take the initiative. And it's good cause it helps women learn to take initiative with men more right?

If there's a situation where she looks like she wants to kiss you but is hoping you will do it for her, just say it again. Cause in that situation you're saying, "I know what's going on with you, it's okay if you kiss me, but you have to make the move"

Obviously this is more for a situation where the gaming is over a longer span of time, rather than club gaming or the like. Cat string at it's finest.

Just throwing it out there for debate/food for thought.
- Angel

I think the newbie doesn't know when to pull back also because it's overwhelming for him. He isn't relaxed and most likely he is trying to impress her too much, he is like "got to give value, got to give value" and instead he's too focused on the outcome.

A natural has women in his life already and it doesn't bother him whether the girl is in to him or not or whether he gets laid or just stays friends. This is attractive to women. She has a challenge and doesn't know what is going to happen and the guy seems mysterious and is automatically higher value.

Also being non outcome orientated shows he is totally comfortable with himself and cool with whatever happens, which puts the girl at ease and she can relax.

When this natural attitude is mixed with flirting with the women, its more of a fantasy for her. Shes part of the guys reality and things are just naturally happening.

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Oh, yeah. The Stifmeister's coming back to Grand Harbor. Deck the halls. Bye-bye, Great Falls. Wipe my ass and lick my balls. It's Stifler time, baby. Whoo-hoo-hoo!! Whoo-hoo-hoo!!

it's a dangerous game to hope the girl makes the move, that's what I've learnt from experience
I've never used that line, I'm sure it could work but it could lead up to further problems
yes pick up is about getting the girl to chase you but you have to bear in mind that pick up also plays on the natural way of things, girls generally want to be kissed rather than be the person who makes the move
girls make their move by continuing to speak to you, show interest and increase kino, so you should just play your part and finish off what you started

I say this, but I will probably give this method a try, mess it up, go in for a kiss only for her to say "I thought you didn't have to kiss girls as they always kiss you"

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:p

it's a dangerous game to hope the girl makes the move, that's what I've learnt from experience
I've never used that line, I'm sure it could work but it could lead up to further problems
yes pick up is about getting the girl to chase you but you have to bear in mind that pick up also plays on the natural way of things, girls generally want to be kissed rather than be the person who makes the move
girls make their move by continuing to speak to you, show interest and increase kino, so you should just play your part and finish off what you started

I say this, but I will probably give this method a try, mess it up, go in for a kiss only for her to say "I thought you didn't have to kiss girls as they always kiss you"

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:p

Parts of this post actually rationalize a lot of what I am doing on the dreaded ex-one-itis, but hearing it from a girls perspective backs me to the hilt.

Cheers

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AA? : In life, it's the man who is willing to die, who always wins.

Hey! You realy triggered my interest by your post. I was just about to make a topic on my own about the same subject but you got here first .

Anyway, there is this sort of paradox I'm experiencing right now:

1) the community says: build up that sexual tension and don't be affraid to escalate. If she ditches you you just next her.
2) what female friends and natural guys tell me : don't try too hard. just be laid back and if you create a vibe that you don't give a fuck about girls and don't need anybody, then she will try to seduce you because you're a challenge. By every sign that shows you're trying to seduce her, you come off as desperate.

It's not only something I hear, it's also something I see. For example, a random guy approaches a female friend of mine. The first minutes, it realy looks afc and they're both a bit aloof. Just talking there, like you said like "friends" (well, to me (and to the girl?) it's actualy still obvious that the guy approaches her for a reason). Based on all the things you read here on the forums you would think that this isn't going to work.
And just when you decided that he is no threat to her, they're both making out like beasts.


In short: somewhere it makes sense because the girls gets hit on all the time and the guy becomes a challange when he acts more aloof which is an attractive attribute, but on the contrary, he is not acting very sexualy and he is playing the dangerous card "I let her seduce me", which means that he doesn't try very hard, but that also means that that guy can go out for months without hooking up with a girl. Or am I wrong?

And by the way, by only approaching and opening is the guy already saying to the girls that he wants to fuck her and the girls know that. Or is my view on pick up, game and girls drastically wrong?

I'm realy looking forward to some good replies cuz this is the thing that is on my mind for the last few months.

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You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

Well, im sorry to reply on such a late note. I myself faced this subject a few years ago, acting like girls didn't care to me and eventually they hit on me. But now, after reading tons of PUA stuff, I tend to go to far in the PUA stuff what causes them to maybe feel the desperate side of me. And that's not what I want.

I hope that someone brings up a brilliant post about how to get girls to want you, like luring them out of their cage out of curiousity...!
So please PUA gurus: MAKE THE POST =).

honestly, i believe David DeAngelo got some great stuff for this

we're all human, and our patterns are all pretty much the same, if you look at how we human usually want something more than anything else, you'll find some interesting answers


i've been a natural all these years right, and i've found out is that there's pretty much a formula to getting girls interested

cocky comedy

that's all there is to it, cocky comedy


also, from my experience, there are many times when men don't have the success they want because of women, when i mean because of women i mean because of their fucked up head, many women got problems

sometimes a man can do everything perfectly and suddenly the women bounces, why? Because it's related to her past, and you just can't change that, only time can.


We as men try to look at women like perfect human beings sometimes, but they're not, most of them have big internal problems and it messes up a lot of things for many men, so don't put the blame on you


Mystery and his friends talk in their book about how you should be a kind of Flame & Ghost at the same time but you gotta see, you, me, we're people, different people

we're all someone else, and that someone has and should be always different, never change being "perfect" for being who you are, remember, there can always be someone better than you if you try to be like mystery or a cool pua, but nobody can be better than you if you're just yourself

even if this can lead to some shitty questions "oh, but i tend to be clingy" "oh, but i tend to be too nice", life experience will shape you and teach you how to be the person you wanna be, afterall people search for stuff the entire time they're alive

don't forget to follow the kind of personality that makes you feel alive, it's very important, and also, a guideline that's fantastic

a pua is the exception to the rule, if you find yourself doing anything with a girl that most guys would do, then forget it, for example

i usually pull a flirty & playing around vibe with girls right, like i'm always the victim and that they're trying to hunt me and shit, it gets me rapport, value and kino very very easily, allows me to know a girl for 2 days and feel like we know each other for years with some great physical results, but imagine, if i'm talking to her everything's cool, i'm playing around and she stops answering, i'll leave her for like 2 days and if she hasn't said something i'll call and send her a text on how i hope she's cool and i understand she's busy, that i've been busy myself too and that whenever she wants she can say something, i'll be sweet and understanding cause it's not expected by me to do so, i showed her i'd be the kind of guy that doesn't really care and just wants to fk around, by doing the message & call thing i show i'm different, it's like i had a huge ball and now i got two huge balls you know, at least that's how she'll percieve me

but as i've said before, many men don't understand women got a lot of problems and they have these "security buttons", they can be anywhere and basically, if you put your finger on them, yeah, things are fawked

i could go on this for hours and explain many points of view but basically, don't forget, what kind of women do you want to atract and what for, answer those questions, they're almost the most important, the most important is for you to go out there and be your man, be the man you wanna be, grab your balls and feel them in your hand all the fucking time, be sexy, be smooth, be fuckin awsome, be whatever the fuck you want to be


cheers.

btw, whatever man thinks that he just can't pursue any women at all after he knows them, that he needs to pass this image like he completly doesn't care is a really insecure one

Like I was saying in the chat room, I think Im trying too hard and that I should lay back some more.

But main problem is finding the right balance between you showing interest to the girl, and then letting her do the moves for you.

Also another big question that pops in my mind is: is it ok if you put the ball in her court and build all the sexual tension, but then you make the move?

Like testing her only, but then you take the initiative and go for the kiss. Its hard to find girls who will make the move becouse of all the fear and social cliche out there.

Yeah its not very natural for girls to go after guys. They will give them signals, sure, but its not likely a girl will just throw herself at a guy.

This it self is a mind game of sort, It's like me saying I will give you permission to suck my dick but you only get 3 sucks.

I dont understand how this can be a DLV, giving permision to someone is showing high value imo

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Three Types of Players:
1) Those who doesn't know whats happening
2) Those who watch what happens
3) Those who make it happen

look, I'm lazy and I can't be arsed answering questions (or even reading my own initial post! lol) but there are a couple of things I'd like to address here.

1) As Dilaks says, this works cause you're mindfucking her. And TheBison, it sets you apart from other men. You're essentially saying, I like you, but I'm not going to do anything about it you have to, and if you don't you'll miss out. It's like a REALLY effective mindfuck for example on my end this is how I'd react, in my head...

He's not going to make the move? But he likes me? Wait, does he like me or not? Oh he must like me, because he said that to me. Maybe he's just really independent or something? What if other girls go after him before me? What if he loses interest before I do anything? Argh, I'm thinking about him a lot, so I must like this guy!

So essentially, this would swiftly change me from sort of liking the guy to REALLY liking him in a short period of time. Make sense? And it works because you're saying, I'm better than all the other men because I don't chase women, I don't have to, they chase me. So I don't need you, I want you, but I don't need you.


2) Say this after you've made an emotional connection/built rapport a bit and in person, for example, say it when you're just hanging out. Say it early on, in one of your first interactions with her, or perhaps after you've been friends with her for a while. It's better to say it in that stage where you're getting to know each other, and sort of friends, could be more, and she hasn't decided that yet.

Anyways, hope that helps. I've probably said half of this in my first post that I didn't bother reading, lols

Usually the women will make the excuse "He's the man he has to go after me" kind of like they need to get the A-OK for her to start chasing her and bothering him, its a sub-concious phycology, and if the women knows that she must put her utter most trying into it when she can fuck the first guy that finds her half attractive.

the pull back thing is okay but usually it can just lead to a mirror image, she finds this out, she will copy, and when your like basically "I like it when a woman grabs my cock and I know she wants me" she might think this is a slutty response because of the fact that she has to convince her mind to pursuit, not something she will take easily.

Fender43

Speaking from experience this has worked for me on some situations, however this was a very slow process because it took sometime for the girl to realise what she wanted. It has something to do with challenging the ego, for example " theres some beer in the fridge drink them if you want" sometimes the self just wants to relax and not drink but the ego might want to drink because you're drinking. Somewhere between those lines anyway

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Three Types of Players:
1) Those who doesn't know whats happening
2) Those who watch what happens
3) Those who make it happen