Hey guys

I was thinking about been honest today.

You know in some of the PUA books when a lot of them talk about the meaning behind actions for e.g a nice guy buys a girl a drink and the girl thinks the guys trying to buy sex off her

Well not so much that, but just been honest with a girl about everything even if it isn't considered 'cool' or whatever...dont you think theyll respect you much more?

The girl will respect you a lot if she thinks your been honest right?

Another thing is that if you are been honest then it won't look like youre trying to buy her approval aswell

What have you guys experienced with been honest vs bsing about stuff

thanks

respect doesnt get the lay im all for faking it till u make it "its not lying, its flirting"

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WARNING: There is so much depth to what is going on with how women actually feel "honest" that it's extremely difficult to just write "this is what it is" but I'll give it a shot. I'm also leaving out long-term Congruence and Consistency as well as some other stuff because this post will be far long enough with me just trying to work out in words this part of it and how women react to my personality.

I bs a very large part of the time yet women say I'm extremely honest. This drives stereotypical "nice guys" who see this NUTS. They'll often start trying to logically convince women that it's ridiculous because I blatantly come up with wild stories.

This is because what women REALLY mean by "honest guy" in large part (+ consistency and congruency) is that he doesn't have lengthy rationalizations to convince her that he's being honest and everything he says is The Truth With A Capital T. (they either feel it or don't, logic works against you) In other words, he's in touch with his own motivations and doesn't try to build up huge chains of reasoning to explain his behavior as being something that's Genuine 100% To The Bone Great Person. Women would rather build up their own rationalizations for YOUR behavior and it's going to be much better and effective than anything you could tell her. This is a part of why mystery is so good....the more you explain and it conflicts with her internal view, the more it upsets her.

Girls like guys who bust on girls fairly frequently (not always) and accurately on THEIR rationalizations and real motivations....in a nice/funny way. It conveys that he is able to to see motivations clearly and not through some fairy tale or culturally programmed way. As long as it's said jokingly and Not A Big Deal she'll convert what's communicated into something favorable to her in most situations.

(unreactive, things aren't a big deal, the more you explain, the more the pain)

Responding to her "crafty" (I don't view women as manipulative, I like "crafty" because it's more positive and fun to out-craft her vs out-manipulate) with BS that clearly shows I'm on to what she's looking for shows VALUE. CONTEXT is really everything to it and I can't give you a roadmap but I can give an example...it's one of those things you have to see in action and you have to learn by trying it.

Girl asks me where I was the night before, I was playing poker, being perfectly faithful and all that, all girls seen couldn't match her qualities etc.

I reply "strippers, I'm busted, am i grounded?" with a little smirk.

There isn't any "honest" answer. Her question (if in the context I'm talking about) was that she was feeling a bit insecure, concerned I might have interacted with some competition or something. She's looking for evidence that I'm lying to her and since she's focused on that, she will see something because her mind is filtering for a lie so I give it to her but make it outrageous.

Part of the subcommunication is that I see what she's up to, am aware she's anxious, and it's such a minor deal that it doesn't matter at all that I come up with something even more ridiculous than whatever she was imagining.

OTOH, Mr Honest Guy would have said "I was playing poker, being perfectly faithful and all that, all girls seen couldn't match her qualities, in fact no woman ever could and he'd never cheat on her" she would be even more sure that he's up to no good. Rinse, lather, repeat until she's tailing the guy to see where he goes.

An "honest" reply is really just perceived by an anxious woman as you cherry-picking whatever it is that sounds like it shows yourself in a good light. Not only that, every time you mention seeing a woman an image of it flashes in her mind, and it'll be on her mind's terms which you cannot ever truly know. So, if you spend an hour telling a woman several dozen times that you're not interested in other women and wouldn't cheat on her, her mind is strongly in this case (because women are 10x+ more emotional) flashing strong emotionally impacting pictures over and over and over

him with a woman
boyfriend lying
him looking at a woman
?
symbol of all the guys who rationalized their motivations like they were white knights and then betrayed
?
him having sex with a woman
him with a woman
boyfriend lying
him looking at a woman
him having sex with a woman
him with a woman
?
symbol of all the guys who rationalized their motivations like they were white knights and then betrayed
?
him looking at a woman
him having sex with a woman
on and on an on and on and on
until she starts getting really upset and things go Really Bad

She is not listening to your words, she's paying attention to the feelings and images being triggered.

My "strippers" answer when it's obvious I'm totally full of crap triggers something like (it doesn't matter what exactly, but this gets close enough to what's going on)

Him with strippers
He's lying (about the strippers)
He relieved my anxiety
I feel better, let's have sex now

There is a lot more going on but this isn't a bad way to represent what's going on. If you try to explain your motivations/reasons/etc, unless you're really really really really really really good with communicating with your subconscious, your body is giving off it's own subtle signals that don't match up with what you're saying. And, if you're that self-aware, she doesn't really want to hear all that stuff either because it won't make sense or connect with her reality anyway.

Like I said, I BS quite a bit and I always stop when there is a situation I need to deal with where it's "fun time over" like the house burst into flames, or we need to work on our finances, she's had a bad day, or lots of other situations where BS interferes with what we're trying to do. A woman likes a bser, but not a court jester.

I really feel I didn't cover this coherently enough but it's such a really big question with layers and layers of stuff going on and that's the best I could do. Hope it helps rather than confuses.

And, it won't work fully with a woman you already know to start doing this sort of thing. Her mind and emotions already have a "map" of your behavior and if you suddenly start BSing a lot when asked nunya questions and answers that are traps she'll get very very suspicious.

I BS immediately when I meet girls for quite a while, maybe 10-20 minutes (i hate to give numbers, it's not like I have a timer going off or even think about it) and then if the girls are cool and up to my standards of behavior, I'll start switching up with being serious for a moment and then back to being playful. I don't think about it in that way, in fact, I don't think of it at all. It's now a part of my natural behavior and I just "know" when a woman is about to get weary of me playing and I unconsciously switch to being more serious.

PS: If I'm talking to a girl and I see a bunch of red flags in her behavior I'll immediately turn into what the vast majority of guys think is being an "honest guy" and this will make her shut down fast and go away.

Actually, I get what you're saying. But there's another answer to the problem. Instead of being a humorous BSer, one could just send such a woman packing. It depends on how much you value sex vs. psychological interaction with the woman.

Being honest can be very powerful in attracting a girl if its mixed with real present confidence and social calibration as in know what not to say like "i had a good sht" and what really is part of you being comfortable with who you are "I think youve got great breasts" however just watchout for sht tests like her asking your age or what you do or telling you she likes to kiss girls or whatever test it is then thats when its best to reserve some of your cards to win the game.

I have a better question, do you have any reason for lying ? Read those books if you want, but don't become paranoid. I agree however if you take this too far(identify with the word honest) and you make your life a battlefield that's not good either.
Just relax, and don't take yourself too serious. Yes, be honest. People will notice that you are an open person.

The thing is, you're looking at things as if they are problems. It's a negative way of thinking and women pick up on that because negative emotions color your body language and behaviors.

If you decide to change that and look at whatever is going on as a situation (more neutral) instead, then you'll find that it's much more easy to deal with. My natural style works *for me* virtually universally with women...because I don't look at a woman's natural tendency to be playing detective a large part of the time as a problem...instead it means she values me quite highly. I see it as a reality to accept and flow with. Silly questions get silly answers. That's how you keep your own reality intact instead of trying to fit inside of her reality.

Example: If a woman says "i think you're a jerk, are you?", it's a test. If you look at it as a problem and things don't go well when you start "honestly" saying "no, i'm not a jerk, i have references, and blah blah blah" you'll dump the girl (problem) instead of:

Her: "Are you a jerk?"
Me: "Of course", "You must like jerks!", or just a blank stare, or any other dozens of things that come into my mind because I don't see it as a problem.

Am I being honest, NO. Am I keeping my own reality intact and increasing her attraction? YES. If I started getting irritated would she detect weakness in knowing who I am? YES.

Women want you to have a strong reality, not a reality where you feel a need to PROVE that you're honest, because then you're not. They are looking for a guy who IS honest...he's so honest that even the idea of having to spend time proving it to convince others doesn't fit inside of his reality.

Looking at a woman who's naturally suspicious of many things, like ALL of them are, as a problem and deciding to dump her for being a problem because she don't react as you think they SHOULD to a list of true "facts" (logic) will cause you to keep on dumping them in your quest for a woman who is not like that.

We have a different solution to the same problem. My solution is, "Here's what I honestly think. If you don't like it, take a hike." I'm not solely interested in getting into a woman's pants, that's not how I'm driven. You say silly questions get silly answers. I say manipulative questions get blunt answers. People learn pretty quick that they're not going to "get something" on me, and that if they want to play games like that, then they will lose. If that makes them pick up their toys and go home I really don't care. I don't like or respect people who are driven like that, so I'd rather not have them around me.
I don't believe all women are naturally suspicious. I've never really dated a suspicious woman, so that's my anecdote. I think you get what you give. If you like being evasive then you're going to deal with suspicion. If you like being blunt then you're going to deal with feelings getting hurt. I'm not saying I am blunt and honest about everything. I'm saying it's my frame, and if a woman tries to ask manipulative questions to change things to her frame, too bad, it's my frame.
To some of us that's called weeding out the duds. Again, pure sex vs. sex and psychology. People with bad psychology are a waste of my time.

From reading I get the feeling I need to completely drop any attitude and uptightness and just relax.

I think even already I've been better, if a girl has asked me a question then I've not become defensive I've simply laughed it off and joked with them.

It's good because even if they say something which could potentially piss me off, by just joking with them I actually feel cool about it and I decrease her value and I think to myself 'I just brushed her off easy' and also it makes me higher value to her.

I think I could do that pretty easily and not react to shit like that, my problem comes from not been too needy with girls I like. There's 1 girl i really like, she has a bf and I'm not been pushy it all, everytime I go out I always hang with her and one of her girl friends and dance with her and shit, it's all honest.

I talk to her a lot online and she always talks, but sometimes when I'm on I actually try not to talk to her cause I could talk to her all day!

Thanks for the advice so far

Keep it coming

I'll say it like this, BE HONEST, like a good man would be But there is nothing wrong if you embellish the truth sometimes

(for example your true story goes: ''I went skydiving and I jumped.'' (This is a little boring, but then you can embellish it) ''I went skydiving and when I jumped, I was falling and just as I was about to open my parachute, it wouldn't open, I thought........ and then right in the last moment it opened.''

Now that is an example, that if you tell it it won't hurt anyone, but don't tell fucked up shit, that will hurt people, like:

True: ''I met Amanda and we talked.''
Embellished: ''Yeah I met Amanda and we started making out, by the end of the night she was so aroused, that we got back at my place and after she gave me a BJ I fucked her all night.''

And then if you're lucky (NOT) Amanda'll come by

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