IM ABOUT TO GO OFF ON A RANT, i was just in the chat room and there seems to be a consensus that using NLP is bad!

the main argument being NLP is manipulative!
well i think that all the styles of pick is manipulative if you are a PUA, a 'natural' or use NLP, and ill explain ill probably get moaned at about this.
if you you call yourself a natural you only show off your good side you're charming and witty and you make an excuse to argue playfully but for one simple reason: YOU WANT TO GET LAID WITH A 10
Now lets say if you study PUA, you peacock, you AMOG, you have a made up opinion opener, you neg, you go through all the FMAC model, but for what reason: YOU WANT TO GET LAID WITH A 10
Now you use NLP you use trance words, anchoring, patterns, calibration but for what reason yes you guessed it: YOU WANT TO GET LAID WITH A 10

what i am saying is you cant really say that one train of thought is more manipulative then the others every pick-up is pre-meditated in some way or another you go through the steps mentally before you even approach anyone,

if i said to anyone on here you can get that 10 to give you a blow job or screw you in less then an hour all you gotta do is say this to her and she'll do it without fail how many of you would say no im not doing that, its wrong? ZERO
YOU WOULD DO IT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GET SUCKED OR FUCKED BY THAT 10!

whats funny is that some people seem to think that using nlp is forcing her to have sex against her will,
having sex with a girl against her will is called rape and that one is the most disgusting crime ever.
and before anyone mentions 'forbidden patterns' no they shouldnt be used they create a bad state in the girl, but doesnt going back to a girls place sleeping with her and then waiting for her fall asleep so you can leave or leaving before she wakes up and never calling her back or responding to her calls also create a bad state in the girl! telling a girl you know may have a thing for you that actually you have a thing for a friend well doesnt that create a bad state, or telling the girl whom may fancy you well actually i dont want a commitment actually i am only interested in sex isnt that gonna stir up bad feelings

Of course people wanna get alid and of course they wouldnt care if it was underhanded or manipulative if it was a HB10.

The only reason people dont use NLP is because nobody has seen it work, nobody has mastered it.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Well it definately does work. But just as style said NLP isnt very useful for influencing other people but is extremely useful in changing yourself. And I feel that people underestimate the power in changing yourself...But on the same note alot of people just do not want to invest the time it takes to really understand hypnosis and NLP.

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for those who believe no explanation is necessary...for those who do not, none will suffice.

That about sums it up for me. I used to study NLP vaguely in my free time and tried to implement it when I could but I just never clicked with it.

It works decent enough for some but I hate over thinking interactions with women and just like to have fun. Whenever I tried NLP, I felt the same way as when I first started doing PU's and reading off an opener script I copied off of a website. I

dont know, to each their own I guess.

I agree with Solteris and Ezo. I have been looking into NLP and SS and I just plain cant see it working. When I read David D's and Mystery's books something clicked and I kind of saw how it would work before I did it and then I did it and it worked. NLP looks really complicated. I have read over some of the patterns and I cannot imagine HOW I could possibly bring them up in the course of natural conversation without the girl getting suspicious.

I'm not against it for ethical reasons.

I am also reflecting on an experience that I had when I saw a stage hypnotist. He was flawless in the way he executed his charlatanry. Here was his pitch.

1) He asks for volunteers from the audience and while he does it he says that people who can submit to hypnosis are very intelligent. "It takes an intelligent mind to be hypnotised."

2) He tells the participants that he is only going to work with his "best," subjects and not everyone can be hypnotized. If you can't be hypnotized you should simply walk off the stage and rejoin the audience.

3) He pulls out a little orb and shows it to the audience and then he shows it to his subjects and starts to chant. I will admit that I did go into a bit of a trance but I never lost my state of consciousness.

4) Now the master stroke. He walks to each participant and says "deep sleep!" while he pulls their wrist down toward the ground making them slump against the person next to them. I realized at this point that none of us onstage were hypnotized. The only people who were left were the ones who were afraid to look stupid by getting off the stage! So we played along with all of his stupid routines, lol. Acting like chickens, looking for our wallets, etc. We began to act and help him dupe the audience. We were essentially caught in a catch 22 and it created a groupthink mentality.

So, if anything, he was hypnotizing the audience into thinking that his subjects were being hypnotized.

What worries me about NLP is that people will apply other aspects of PUA like MM and David D and then work some SS in and go. "Wow! This really works?"

Now I know that SS predates more modern methods but is it all about hypnosis or is enough of it just sound PUA advice that makes people think that they are really hypnotizing the hot girl when she is really attracted to your confident attitude, nice clothes, and funny sense of humor? Similar mass delusions are not unheard of.

SS practitioners please do not take offense as I would love to be proven wrong. If SS is really as powerful as the hype I would get into it in a second.

Well first you have to know what hypnosis is before you can really criticize it. Basically when someone is hypnotized they still hear whats going on they know what your saying but they just dont care. Not to be confused with 'trance' trance is different from being hypnotized. Trance is a state of excited attention. Which is what you are doing with SS. Basically what your saying is so damn interesting that they want to keep listening to you. Your language puts them into a trance which will lead them into the experiences that you describe...

Im not very good at explaining things at this point in time but i did my best. Hope this makes sense.

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for those who believe no explanation is necessary...for those who do not, none will suffice.

My main grouse against NLP is that there is a lot of BS associated with it. I couldn't give a rats arse if its manipulative or not. I suspect that its no more manipulative than adept social skills would be. In-fact I think the 'manipulative' rep probably works in its favour, as desperate newbs probably think of it as a dark art of tremendous force, which will magically get them pussy that has eluded them. NLP has little or no scientific backing. It has won a huge following on the basis of the charisma of guys like Ricard Bandler and has since been embraced by corporates, pua community and the self-help movement. Therapists have virtually ignored it.

As far as its application in pickup goes, I've seen a few guys apply it with very non-impressive results. Mind you these guys were skilled at using patterns in a natural way as well as having a lot of charm and skills with women. I would say the net contribution from NLP was so small as as to make this unworthy of learning by any aspiring PUA.

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www.sydney-lair.com

if been studying conversational hypnosis for a week now and told a girl a story telling with about 5 different stories looping each one then finishing off from last to first and embedding codes in between them she was hella confusedwas like what about the first story?? she didnt even remember any of the stories after but she looked hypnotized
should i keep studing these stuff or is it bs for pua??

i don't think nlp is bs....i study pshychology at university and if you look deeper into it, it's very possible and logic. i read some PU books about it. at the beggining nothing made sense. i thought it would never work. but i kept on reading and reading. At one point my mind was so full of that stuff and the ideea that it doesn't work so i gave up. but about 2-3 later it all started to connect and made more sense.

i tried some of them on my ex and my firends and the results can be quite surpising. i mannaged to make a guy cry, my ex is a pshycobitch now...so i guess it does work. i was so amazed that i went on reading even more. Last thing i read was the October Man Sequence, about 3 months ago.

now i have to pay attention to what i say and do. i have the tendency to do it over and over again. every time i touch somebody, the evil thought of manipulation comes into my mind. I know it sounds exagerated, but sometimes it feels like having a plate of your favourite food in front of you when you're starving.

i would suggest you to try it, but there is one thing i can say. it's very powerful but quite addictive.

PS: if anybody that studies pshych here...i have a question. would you try nlp on your patient that sufferes from depression? (igonring the fact that it is illegal)

Im a psych minor BA. I tried to use NLP on a guy who got dumped by his BF and told me about it. he was right depressed. Apparently pencils make him quite happy now.

crazyoney, no matter what you say

it's still raping her (if it happens to happen first) and there is no dignity in changing yourself that way.
Because life is a journey of course, and a journey that has all the consequences you can imagine from painless to painfull.

So one must watch out very carefully what he's doing.

And what you're doing with nlp/hypnosis is transforming your mind into a video game (wow what a change) while you were better than that : a human.

So your journey is to play in your mind lot of illusions and lie to yourself about reality and thinking when it's not fitting that you are the one who's got a problem.
So you decide that masturbating and listening to an mp3 will give you dignity and confidence ? Is that a good change ?

Before all that, you might have been a little bit sad cause yeah... no-gf time but overall if you're not focusing on it that much things were pretty cool.

But what about now ? what about that illusional rat race ?

The result ? you end up phobic to reality and pretend you're changing while you're learning to refuse reality.

The only thing nlp/hypnosis do is disconnect you from your humanity

read yourself man, you're ready to do voodoo to get laid.
My dignity worth better than that.

Here i'm gonna tell you a joke and don't think i'm doing nlp.
Cause nlp act like it invented metaphors, while metaphor is instinctively human
But what nlp is tricking you into is to fool you about its own reality : it's illusional, dogmatic and doesn't fit to human. Look at the name n-l-p, so my question is .. are you a c++ compiler ?
So why do you go learn a language that is not for human ?

Moreover, nlp is very dogmatic but it's dogma doesn't stand on the usual social meeting points where views are exchanged in a human standard, au contraire, it forces you to believe it's neutral and stands higher than anything

let me quote ezo :
And after reading that guys you still don't think it's a cult ?

Here is the joke :
3 engineers
3 chemists
and 3 mathematicians are jailed each group in a cell

the engineers used laws of physics to crack the door open and got out
the chemists made a product that made the door melt and got out
the mathematicians made the hypothesis that the door was open and got out

The biggest lie of nlp/hypnosis :

- truth/reality (real truth) does not exist so you can make up lies all you want

And you know what's underneath that, it's people gave up wanting a better world and changing the world with real things.

Instead you are changing your mind about it.
So while you do all the efforts to get to the hb's and lifestyle that are publicized to you... you are also being slaves like never, because your focus is only on pickup, you become slaves of the society and accept everything.

What a change !!

We humans do certainly not evolve or progress that way.

we're no animals (no to hypnosis), we're no machines (no to nlp)

nlp/hypnosis don't teach you language and thinking, because that's human, but they pretend they do while pushing on you their dogma on what is reality or how to see it.

And that's a CULT. the technical stuff and words are covers. nlp is a sick way to represent reality and human mind.

throw all your nlp/hypnosis books and live a life and keep this in your mind

You trust too much i guess because you really want it too much so people can push on you any kind of concepts, philosophy, products and make money.

picking up doesn't mean necessarily happiness, satisfaction or fullfilment.
It sounds it is because you "changed" your beliefs about the fact it's a doa question.

And that's how it's presented very implicitely, they make you think that it's the only thing in life.

do you like poetry ?[/quote]

to let everybody in myself and mikki have been having a debate recently wether using hypnosis and nlp is bad or not, he says that its wrong ,its evil, and its users will be going to hell, where as i say it isnt bad in fact i think its great, i dont think ill be going to hell for using it and if i did end up in hell its probably where i deserve to be anyways!
anyway as for using hypnosis and nlp being rape let me reply to that because i had to laugh when i heard that is using a pickup line rape? is peacocking rape? is natural game rape?

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life sucks and then you die! deal with it

Mikki clearly isn't aware about what NLP is, when he says it's a language not made for human.

Humans used it all the time. It's just a matter of being conscious of it and using it.

mind hacker, so you chosed to believe in nlp

crazyoney then don't use artefacts and if getting to be with a woman is what you deserve it will happen naturally