Prior to reading this post, I had posted a frustration post in PUA Lounge regarding my own warped mindset towards the dynamics of PUA.

And now I read this post, and ask myself "Is PU right?"

...I can't answer that for anyone but myself. I don't know, to be honest.




I've been out in the field long enough to understand most of the PUA principles taught today. It all comes down to inner game; the techniques come naturally after that.

The best thing I can say is that it's not whether "PU" is right...it's whether YOU are right.

In MY case, I'm all fucked up from understanding how the game works. I feel like someone ripped stitches from my eyes, and showed me the truth about man/woman interaction. It's not supposed to be this fucked up, but damn it is.


I am a nice guy. Not an ass-kisser, mind you, but a genuinely nice person. I believe in positive thinking, building yourself towards the highest point possible, and helping others do the same.

But you can't help women, nor can you help other men. Women are emotional, fickle human beings. You can manipulate them into cheating. (Or, at least, that is what I've come to see through my own experience).



...I've heard hearsay that women and men are alike mentally and spiritually, and that the only difference is that men have dicks, and women have tits and a vag. Literally; the rumor is that men and women are equally emotional and logical, and the reason we're divided is because of social conditioning.

Don't listen to that, or my rambling. It's not proven, nor is it something I 100% believe.



Is PU right? I don't know. This whole dynamic between man and woman isn't right. It doesn't make sense. It's frustrating.

Someone knows the answer, and I think that person who does can't explain it either. It's like trying to explain where atoms came from...it just hasn't been realized yet.



Whatever man...PU is PU. At the moment, I'm wracked. Nothing seems right about today's dating scene. Nothing makes sense. Why can't man and woman just fuck? (Seriously, no wit intended)

Chief, do my opinions on this matter bother you?

Rune,

I have to confess some amusement at your lamnetation of the man-woman dynamic. Have you ever considered that the problem might be the kind of women that you're going for? I see it all the time on here--how women are condemned as unfaithful, manipulative, connving, ect. I know plenty of women that aren't that way but, let's face it, none of them are likely to hang out at the venues that PUAs tend to frequent (clubs, pubs, bars, parties, ect.) Most of them, despite being attrctive, also aren't going to grab your typical sarging PUAs attention because they don't wear a lot of makeup and don't bear a lot of skin. They don't display the vices that some PUAs selectively look for (smoking, ect.) Most would certainly never go home with a guy the night they met him. I'm not arguing that truly dismal man-women relationships don't exist, or that some women aren't inherently illogical, maniuplative, and/or emotional (I could make the same claim about some men, mind you), but that's it's somewhat hypocritical to claim that all women are this way when one is part of a community that tends to gravitate towards women that are more likely to be that way.

If you want a quick lay, knock yourself out at the parties and clubs. If you want an enduring relationship with someone who isn't the group that you're complaining about, you had best look elsewhere.

Only in the sense that it makes me sad that you're saying things like "I could never trust anyone who has actually studied it as a student rather than, as I am doing, learning about it so that I know what to avoid."

I studied pickup as a student and I think I'm a pretty trustable guy. I know a lot of really good men from the community even though I also know some rather despicable ones. It just makes me sad when people avoid other people because of preconceived misunderstandings.

IMO I think you are trying to protect your current relationship out of fear because you think a PUA could potentially manipulate you into cheating as you have done once before. Well, first of all you know the reasons that you cheated that time were your own. Second of all you are using fear to try to protect your relationship instead of love. Does that really seem right to you? I'm no relationship expert but I don't have that sort of fear in my own current exclusive LTR.

Your negative view of PUAs appears to be just as valid as a chauvinist's view of women.

Rune,

You may feel that someone has ripped the stitches from your eyelids but you still don't understand what you see.

Why would it make you sad? If, as you suspect, I'm being overly biased, it's my loss, not yours. When I say that I could never trust a PUA, I mean in terms of forming a romantic relationship with one. (As for one-nights stands or fwbs, forget it--I'd never do that with anyone.) I would be more cautious around a male friend that I know has studied PU, but only in the way that I would be more cautious around a friend that I know has massive insecurity issues and tries to manipulate ppl because of it (not that I'm insinuating PUAs fit into that category, mind you.)

What's wrong with trying to protect myself from people that I suspect of having less-than-pure motives? Everyone does, and there is always someone else telling them that they're being overly biased and uneccessarily limiting themselves. For those people who claim that they'll try anything once, they're either foolish or being disingenious. Being too open is just as damaging, if not moreso, than being too cautious.

Melissa brings up a good point.

Who would you rather trust, a guy who have spent a lot of time understanding the relationship between man and woman and worked towards improving himself... Or A complete loser who does not even have the confidence to be himself, a guy who have to fight for his own survival at your expense, a guy who has deep mental issues about relationships.

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Ezo
Unfortunately, both of these types are present in PU community and majority of people coming to PU are people with insecurities and who want to take so called "revenge" manipulate and etc. I have to admit, at one point in my life I was very frustated and developed some kind of anger, then I learned some inner game and this created a pretty big social circle among women for me. Now I have a lot of girls who are my friends- and thanks to them now I love women and absolutely don't want to hurt anybody, rather make them happy. But what is really important is, if it's good that we are teaching all these techniques? maybe we should start putting limits on knowledge we give to people? People with insecurities will most likely try to take advantage of girls by learning these techniques, so I decided to advocate Zan perrion's system which will first of all teach you to love women and try to share rather than consume. It also underlines main points in the game, but most importantly it helps people to develop social skills and become more self-sophisticated. I'm proud of saying that I discovered deep love and respect for women before I achieved any success with them. Now I would punch in the face any PUA who is trying to take advantage of girls.

Rustram and Ezo,

If what you say about the PUA community is true, wouldn't it make sense that I have a strict anti-PUA policy? I've dealt with the manipulative, alpha-esque pseudo-bad boys and I am absolutely and unequivocally done with them. They make terrible boyfriends, for one thing. I'm much happier now, and with a guy that's never even heard of PU. You would all probably decry him as a beta and an AFC, but who cares? Why on earth would I ever want to go back?

Melissa, as every PUA(and even such an AFC as me) knows love and feelings have nothing to do with logic...its not about the reasons you have to be with this guy its about what you feel towards him. Feelings come first, reasons for them are created later.(this is true for both males and females)

Rustram,

Yes, it is true that feelings typically come before logic. That doesn't mean that one should go with one's feelings/emotions/gut/whatever you want to call it when reason denotes that such a course of action would be/is detrimental to one's wellbeing. Following emotions in lieu of logic is pure stupidity at its finest.

I can tell something from my personal experience. For me emotions are important(mine and other people's) I f let's say you feel that this person in front of you might be that special one(yeah I'm hopeless romantic) and you say no: this is so illogical I'll never be with her, she is out of my league and etc- you'll never know if she was that special one. Sometimes life doesn't give the second chance. I believe we get chances in our lives and its our duty not to let them slip away. That's why I joined PU community.

A hopeless romantic is something that I have never and will never be. The reality is that every person is compatible with a number of other people--the notion of one's special soul mate/one and only true love is a damaging fantasy. Everyone is replacable, and when you start thinking that someone isn't replacable is when you run into problems. I know that when you're in love you feel like you could never be this happy with someone else and all of that other ridiculousness, but had you not met that one special someone you would have found someone else, and in many cases this other person would have made you just as happy. Who people end up with long term actually has more to do with when the people in question met, as well as what life stages they were at, rather than the people themselves.

When I say that emotion must be tempered by logic, I'm not commenting on whether or not you should talk to talk to someone or try to get to know them, but whether you should take the leap from friendship/casual dating/fwb into a long-term relationship. As wonderful as love is, in terms of ensuring the health of a long-term relationship or marriage it is woefully inadequate. Love is not enough, and never will be.

WHAT AN AMAZING DAY!!! The girl I was making out with, said goodbye and ran away as fast as she could(EPIC FAIL!!)then texted me about how stupid that was( I just made a joke about it)(but this definitely a story worth telling my buddies) and most importantly!the girl I was talking about broke up with her boyfriend!!(I know this is horrible but I'm soo happy!)(P.S. I knew that this isn't gonna last long because he is AFC!!!(even worse than me))ok guys what should I do?????????I know this changes the subject of discussion, but here is bottom line: If you can learn to make other people happy why wouldn't you? That's what PU is for me. Please give a few advises because I'm blown away right now!!I can't think logically(effect of one-itis)!!

In my particular situation, I love making other people feel good(I do it all day long), but I am afraid of making them NOT feel good if I decide they are not “the one”. Pick up to me is about expanding my possibilities. I, in turn worry about hurting girls that I “practice” on. I am all for finding “the one” but have had some bad experiences with the stepping stones. I agree with Melissa in that there is no “one (and only) for me”. If, I get her right. Melissa, correct me if I am wrong but anybody that can find “their soul mate” in a 7 mile radius is kidding themselves. I guess that means I must have 100’s+ “soul mates” just in California. It takes work. Anyway, I used to just “go along” with any relationship I ended up in. Now, being selective, I know I have hurt girls that have not made the cut. And, I feel bad about seducing them, to just decide later I can do better. But I guess that’s part of the process.

I think I could of said it better by saying, you try on shoes before you buy them. Girls try on way more. Its just the way it works, they are picky and we(guys) (pua) are just learning how to be the same. And I am refering to guys with at least a lil game, not AFC's with a lil MM just trying to get laid.