Hi peoples, I could really use some help on this one...its kinda long winded but I'll do my best keep it brief...
Real good friend of mine goes uni, i dont see her for ages, then i do and I start liking her.

She splits with her fella...Im AFC and help her thru this. We go out and drunk kiss one night and she makes it clear shes not looking for anything with me the next day...fair play.

As I start liking her more I eventually get friend zoned badly...and this was my introduction to learning pickup.

Time passes some more, I start applying what I learn, one night we end up at mine, drunk snoggin, dry humping but no nudity etc. But nothing else happens after this, I darent tell her I like her cus i made that mistake once.

We go out some other times as a group with mates and she shows IOIs

I have oneitis real bad for her but dont show it cus she is a busy girl with other things in her life, and I dont wanna mess up again.

She flakes a bunch of times but eventually thru text game and other things I manage to get her to offer me to go out drinking.

This happened and once again, we ended up at mine, getting horny, but no sex and slept together. During these moments when we're drunk she says things like 'what are we doing?!' 'we cant do this!' and we carry on anyway.

Basically, if we go out just us two and we drink we hook up and I want to be in a relationship with her but dont know where to go from here. I'll share some more bits of info if it might help you guys to know...

Shes HB9 and so I know she has options

We both get on dead well with each others parents

After this weekend and Id taken her home we exchanged a few texts and she said she had a mint night

Our mates dont know about whats going on

Ive been learning my ass off to get out of the friend zone and ive tried and put most things to use

She is quite shy in terms of her own confidence in her looks

It feels like she darent do anything when we are sobre, and i also feel like i get in my head alot more when sobre.

I communicate well with other girls which i think might fire up her competitive side

I dont wanna just keep trying and trying only to go out once in a while and snog drunk. Shes been single for awhile now so shes got the rebound thing out of her system. She has lots of guy friends but I dont let that bother me. Its at the stage now where if i ask her if we wanna go out again its almost certain we both know what we're thinking, but lately Ive been doing lots of the chasing so I dont wanna seem needy.

I really dont wanna go round in circles with this anymore its been a long time in the making. We are really good friends but I want more and Im sure she doesnt see me as AFC any more. We dont label our days and nights out together as dates but they sure feel like they are. Please help me guys, there must be something I can do to take this further!!

Were good friends that hook up drunk and have busy lives, i was friend zoned once when i was honest about my feelings to her, how could this be turned into a relationship?! Ill do anything and keep trying until im old and wrinkly I know this can work because to get to this stage has been nothing short of a miracle.

Any advice will be really appreciated

gaz, sounds like you have made some progress.... I particularly liked this bit:

> I communicate well with other girls which i think might fire up her competitive side

If you get the chance, research the power of jealousy. Maybe mention about how other girls are SO hot and wonderful... that should fire her up.

Now, you are doing some things right, you can hook up with her. Don't worry about not closing the deal, that is secondary, and skills there will come with time.

I would like to see you do something different next time you have a chance to snog her. Instead of falling under her spell... try REJECTING HER. Right now, I get the impression that she has the power in this relationship. Talk about turning it around on her...?

Rejecting her, although it may cost you a short term snog fest with a HB9, (you can give up your 'resistance' even minutes later), it shows that you do not NEED her. It communicates so many powerful things.

Most importantly, don't get one-itis. If you can score with a HB9, there are plenty of others you can score with, who are probably far freakier in bed than this girl.

put yourself out of your misery once and for all, be brave and ask her out for dinner next weekend to some really nice restaurant!

if she says no, then just ask her straight out 'is it cos you dont want to get romantic with me cos i really am into you, love being with you, i thought we could just have a really nice nite together' - at least you have told her straight out and then you know for certain one way or the other - if the answer is still no, sorry but its no, dont have the mindset of "Ill do anything and keep trying until im old and wrinkly" !! Sorry but that reeks of desperation and dont be in any doubt, it shows and its not attractive to any woman. Instead have some self respect and confidence that if she isnt bothered, then the next one will be along in a minute, (think the lyrics to beyonce song - to the left) because if you dont have confidence in yourself how can you expect her, or the next girl to think you are 'all that' either, you just have to accept it and move on, its not easy but the sooner you know the sooner you can start getting on with your life and not wasting it on a nonstarter

if she says yes then make it really good and kinda romantic, couple of glasses of wine (dont drink too much!!!) and then make another date soon after

an ultimatum Ariana?????????

come on... a girl like this far too smart and manipulative to fall for that.

gaz, if you take the Ariana route, let us know how it goes. I can't see it working.

Hey guys thanks for what you have said, both your responses make sense. I don't really wanna do the upfront thing because at this stage it would be too easy for her, she probably wouldnt be as interested (and it hasnt worked before). It would be great to get her to admit feelings first/try to take things further etc

As far as the jealousy thing is concerned...I can try that some more, but im sure there would be a stage where she just thinks forget it. I will mention other girls to her in conversation next time carefully and see how she takes it. Also, the whole resisiting a snog thing...so far its only been when we are both drunk. Part of me thinks a sobre kiss would mean enough for us to both know we like each other more than fooling around drunk. But are there any ways I could make it playful or effective when resisting next time (even if its when drunk)?

Im thinking along the lines of 'ar i knew u just wanted be my friend to lure me into SPAM my hot body', or just grinning and carrying on dancing or walking away. (I was joking with her saying how she knows exactly what shes doing....she seduces me...she gets me drunk and takes advantage etc and we laugh about it)

Maybe i should try and sort out meeting in another setting, but im worried that im still the one suggesting we do things more than her. I wouldnt ever let her know how determined im feeling about this, of course that wouldnt come across very well but i do believe in myself enough to know it can work. Anything else you or anyone could add to this would be great!

Lol, its normally the other way round isnt it, guys bein happy with just the drunken flings and the girl wanting more...im such a lady! This soap opera has to conclude soon tho.

How does this sound... You can start by putting the palm of your hand directly in her face and saying NO. 'I know u want to kiss me, but NO, you have to resist my boyish charm and manly good looks lalala'

I like your style.... accuse her of seducing you, luring you into her trap and DENY DENY DENY that you are hitting on her, even go as far as saying that you are flattered by the unbelievable amount of love she is showing you, but she is not your type.

Other ideas... get close to her, then push her away and tell her to stop hitting on you (most guys never do enough good kino), make fun of things she says, play the uber-sarcastic role saying that you love her so much and you want 10 babies with her right now. They might not all be big winners, but it sets the tone that YOU are the one with the power in the relationship.

Thanks man, i like the sound of that. Its something i will be trying out next time. the tongue in cheek romance stuff works well with her too, so perhaps more of this..along with the jeaslousy card....and of course, having backup options.

I guess alls thats left now is to take my sweet time with inviting her out again...and continue to be the charming guy Ive so gratefully become. PS at one point the other nite i was smacking her ass jokingly, i can always suggest that I wasnt doing it hard enough if she misbehaves lol.

Im still open to more thoughts and suggestions if anyone has them. Cmon guys...I feel good about this! Help me to get this 'friendly friend' best friend horny lil bugger dying for more than pissed up kissin...

nope not talking about giving her an ultimatum! sorry but my experience is life is too short to keep waiting and waiting, seeing if someone changes their mind. just giving it his best shot, wearing his heart on his sleeve, taking a different tack to the normal going out getting drunk ploy, and saying how he feels, and then, if she doesnt feel that way, then fair enuf, her loss, deal with it, move on, 'Next!'
End of the day, speaking from experience here somewhat, however wonderful she is, she may just never be the perfect woman for him for any number of reasons, and he could waste years on her, whilst the one who is may be just round the corner....

Ariana I totally understand what you are saying with this and your right. I will be keeping my eyes open of course I mean, I heard somewhere that experience is gained from the things you fail at and learn from, not what you achieve.

Im gonna keep on sorting things out with other girls, there are a couple in the works that arent as attractive but its done wanders for my self esteem and inner game lately knowing what Im capable of. I mean, you don't always have to know exactly how things will work if you just believe in them enough right?

I think Im gonna spent some time looking at push pull techniques...this is something that I havnt done alot of before I dont think....everything else Ive learned has brought me this far and helped loads. Any more suggestions or ideas for this? As a kind of guideline and more of an insight I have these things working at the moment...

Husband wife role play with kids (were bad parents)
Tongue in cheeck romance just lately works
Social circle is always expanding (in now a student and shes just finnished uni and works)
Im insisting its all her comming onto me when we get rude when we're drunk and she laughs about it
Being sexual with text game is hit and miss as far as her reacting goes.
Lots of in jokes ending with me just ripping her for being so geeky
Still worry about her flaking despite our last meet (we both have busy social lives)

you may actually be on to a winner there, but are you man enuf to put her over your knee if she calls your bluff i wonder....anyway that still wont really get you into the feelings zone where i am sensing you want to be, liklihood is you will just end up in bed again and not get any further once more....

perhaps you are not yet confident enuf for the big all or nothing dinner date idea...i think tommy's suggestions are effective if you want to remain flirty and safe, play power games and make her be the one to do the actual scary stuff of admitting having any feelings whatsoever, or just put off the inevitable...

if it helps to know this, if i want a man at all, nothing makes me want him more than not being able to have him, having to wonder and wait to see him is excrutiating but makes being with him seem so much more rewarding, and him more 'valuable' - you could just try making yourself more unavailable(ish) - make her want you, but dont let her have you...?