I'm attractive, have great body language, and feel like most girls are usually attracted to me. For the most part I'm very good with women on a surface level. I've had oppurtunities where a very attractive girl has brought me into a room with a condom on the table and somehow or another what should have happened didn't. I got into the game about 3 years ago and I have developed a lot of good habits (I naturally kino, have good voice tonality and eye contact.) When I am with others I am usually commanding attention. Despite this I find myself alone for the majority of the day. At the end of a social interaction I usually just go back into my room, or do something alone. I've had sex on different occasions before but have never had a long term relationship. Sometimes I feel socially handicapped - like someone who is autistic. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hey man,

This is going against my bankwallet but you may want to check out some other professional services outside of the PUA industry. You'd know far better then myself but if you really think you may be suffering from a lack of proper socialization, then maybe a psychologist/psychiatry may be of help? You don't need meds, but they may be able to come up with something. And hell, maybe I'm wrong, and you just need a kick up the batty! If that's the case, then yeah, I might be able to help you out.

_________________
gwap

Thanks Jay. Although sometimes I really do feel socially handicapped, I think my problems stem from a disconnect between who I project and who I know how to be. My evenings in high school used to consist of sitting alone at home playing computer games, or writing songs all day. I was overwieght and seeking the validation of my peers. Now, probably as a result of me getting in shape and having improved on my body language, women naturally think I'm attractive. In conversations were I feel I spark I'm also often cocky/funny/flirtatious. It all feels like a very fun game, and I love just knowing that women are attracted to me on some level.

The problem is that deep down, I'm still playing those computer games alone all day (not literally but figuratively.) I'm not used to having friends, and to be honest although I know just about everyone on my floor in a fun friendly way, I don't really have any. Even when I try to hang out with people, it almost always amounts to a few spikes in conversation (from something witty, or funny that I say) and then just sitting. Despite not having anything to do, I often still come across as "cool" because women or the many other people that I know will say "hi" to me - or because of my looks/body language/occasional witty comments.

I've tried forcing myself to do things that will help me to better meet others, like when I work out, or go to the college library to work on an assignment; and I've actually had success and gotten phone numbers and flirted quite a bit. Usually this only constitutes a single moment in a day where I am mostly alone. After a certain point, despite having the girl attracted to me, something doesn't work, presumably something to do with us being comfortable.



I'll go far outside of my comfort zone, as I have before, if I have to. I'm just really tired of being so a-social. And don't be afraid to give me a kick in the "batty," Jay, my ego's kind of dissolved at this point.

We are pretty similar, I was a gamer in HS who wrote poetry. I felt a alone(outside of 3 sisters). I am also overweight, and was seriously lacking in confidence. I did however have more than a few girls who liked me during school and had no idea until I understood body language.

I had a naked girl grind on me, and follow me into my room and didn't get the hint. I had a girl drunk on Tequila tell me how horny she gets on Tequila and it took her being proactive for me to get any. I had a girl invite me on her bed to watch a movie and missed the sign. Trust me I see your dilemma.

Learn to Read People

I think you should be polishing up on your body language reading skills. Than you will have a better idea about things. Since you seem to be a intelligent person I think you should also study a bit about courtship(phases, intimacy, turn ons, etc.) rather than pick up. Getting a girls number is pretty easy, all the money is in the follow up as they say. Know how to influence people and what creates attraction. It seems as if you know you are attractive but you don't seem to believe it at the same time.

Girls Want Sex

You should be learning more about the opposite sex. You should realize that sex is always on any humans mind. Women are far more sexual than men. When you talk to a girl keep in mind she is thinking like you. She is thinking about you from a mating stand point. Most girls want to have sex just as often as men or more. In fact I have never met a girl that was less sexual than men.

They aren't comfortable with expressing this due to society's outlook on a sexual girl. They are labeled: sluts, whores, prostitutes, scandaless, concubines, hookers, etc. They are taught to suppress their primal instincts of loving sex or they will be labeled.

Gaining Friends

If you want to gain friends, you need to have experiences with them. When I moved away from home and went off to college I ended up getting a bit depressed and drank. I fortunately at least met friends this way. We would go on trips Mammoth, camping, Spring break, Vegas, or whatever. You need to find a way to have experiences with these people and than you guys can become friends. When you talk about old times with friends it is usually an experience you guys enjoyed together.

Elevation?

Elevation may be your problem(at least it was mine with little human contact outside of digital), you are worried about over stepping your bounds. It is good to know how far your bounds extend and to have the balls to overstep them, what I mean by that is your bounds are a lot further than you think.

Inner Game

Inner game should be one of the highest things on your list. Jay is right in that a Doc might help. You are not confident enough. It is obvious you need to learn to appreciate yourself a lot more. Your words speak as though you feel sorry for yourself, and that you are a victim of circumstance. A victim can never move on, you should get over that.

Don't fall away from who you are. Just accept who you are. Acknowledge your insecurities and move on. We all have faults the difference between a confident person and a insecure person is the confident person learned to live with his faults.

Work on your confidence, this is something you seem to be lacking.



That is what I kind of got out of your posts. I am sure I can elaborate more on whatever you have questions about.

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Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Listen Benn see me, Im here for you right now, i want to help you.

I was like you once i wasn't obese but skinny as fuck, and you know what i did to get rid of this video game bullshit, I picked up something else, and god damn did I love it, maybe for some people PUA isnt really a hobbie, I learned guitar and even with a little practice i wasnt good but i was a guitar player. I see that you probrably have a problem in your confidence and I want you to do one thing.

SHRED THAT IMAGE UP IN YOUR HEAD AND CLEAN UP.

what do you want, dont you have dreams? what are you going to do when your 27 37 47 be on the same games? please. Get out their and evolutionize, dont go crazy but for your own self help just get out and Synchronize, Attraction? Opening? dont worry about that stuff right now, hit up your local place with one of your buddys to HAVE SOME FUN, dont try to look cool with body language, and although women can read body language very well, dont demostrate, change it up, dont give them something to work with, Talk, Talk, TALK, just jump in, your impulsive, not thinking about it.

want to conversate, dont be a chode and talk about the weather, talk about 2 things, YOU and SEX thats it, she'll get it after a while, be playful

SEXUAL CONTEXT THROWING AWAY THE CHODE

HB: so im a chode too how bout this weather
You: whats that? you want to have sex with me
HB:huh?
You:well sure if you say so
HB POSITIVE RESULTS

always comment on what a girl is wearing in highschool they dont spend all their moms money to tell themselves they look good, they spend it for YOU to say it looks good.

and also dont fret on any of this shit, i have found that overanalyzing anything thats in your head and not your stomach is a waste of energy.

If you dont understand something, TALK TO YOUR SISTERS ABOUT IT, they deal with guys, dont let them tell you to be yourself, tell them to shut the fuck up and tell them to act like your just another dude and not your brother.

be cocky but TONE IT DOWN when you start getting her to talk about herself and relating stuff with her, this is when youve hit comfort, continue to use sexual context.

GOOD LUCK I HAVE HOPE IN YOU MANG.

Fender43

Thanks guys.

I just wrote a long ass post and forgot to log in and accidentally erased it - so I'm going to keep this shorter.

It's not that I lack confidence (not on a surface level at least although I'm still open to new ideas.) It's that I literally don't have anything to do after a while.

I think I need help with isolation/kissing. I rarely am able to get a kiss close on my own. I too have had most of my sexual interactions with extremely proactive girls, and even then I've fucked a few up. Is it more "letting go" than learning something new? And if so are there still some essential things you could tell me? Kissing feels like a huge step for me and I'd really appreciate any help on how to make it seem more doable.

Also, I'm at a loss for what to do after moments of escalation. How do I escalate after I've touched a girls leg with the back of my hand? I've had one ballsier experience where I've actually fingered a girl while talking to her and her friend. I couldn't/shouldn't make this a habit unless I know it's acceptable. Any ways to know if this is ok to do, It was a really hot interaction which we both enjoyed.

The idea about making friends through experience makes a lot of sense to me. How can I make my experiences more socially accessible to people? Are there any particularly good experiences that you can think of off the top of your head?


Thanks for your responses guys. Peace, Love, and all that happiness stuff

You've got some really great responses in this thread, I agree with them all. Read them over and over again, and go back to this thread and read them again once you advance in your PUA journey and are able to understand them more deeply. This thread is great stuff. I don't know the other posters very well, appart from poeticlyskuac. He has helped me a lot, so I can really recommend reading his body-language and being-the-man threads. Use the search function and be prepared for some awsome reading. I know it transformed me from an rAFC to a PUA. (thanks again, poeticlyskuac, I hope you're reading this).

Now for my own advice.

Man, you've already done some awsome stuff. Come on, that fingering story, that's some bad-ass storry-telling material. That's the kind of shit that will win over any guy at any party. You'd be the man just for telling that story alone. Get the picture, mate? I'm not exaggerating, I'm telling you, you've done some bad-ass shit. And how did you do it? Think about that for a moment, and try to get into the mood you were in when you built up to this situation.

Often, when things go well for me, they just happen. It's because I don't think about it. Whenever an escalation is not met with resistance, I keep escalating. Slowly, but relentlessly. Escalate untill you meet resistance. Then you know. But having let you go that far before resisting, given that you escalate little bits at a time, means you're not far across the line. Just back off slightly, and you'll be on allowable territory again. Try a slight escalation again, and you'll find quite often that the line has been pushed further. Push and pull.

My point is this: Don't worry about whether it's acceptable or not. As long as you micro-escalate, you'll find out, without a scene. Then calibrate from that. I'm gonna go ahead and make a guess: When you fingered that girl, you just found yourself doing it, right? Way to go, that's how you do it.

Another thing. Make female friends. Don't sarge with the sole purpose of fucking them. If you turn them into pivots or discussion partners instead of lovers, you've gained something really valuable. besides, leaving results-orientation at the door is the way anyway. Thinking too much about the desired results is a surefire way to blow your chances to reach those results out the window.

I really feel for your situation. We are each other's opposites, I've always felt unattractive, but if only they'd get their eyes at me, I felt, they'd be intrigued. Now, that was not really true, as I still acted like an AFC, but still. I always thought that if only I looked a bit better or acted a bit more confident, I'de get the girl. Learning about PUA has tought me otherwise.

I think you'll be able to overcome your problems, and I'd love to hear about your progress. Keep us posted in this thread.

Mungo

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here-vp376783.html#376783

Find people you can connect to, those can be your real friends. Seems like, if you meet new people, you're meeting the wrong ones you're not connecting to. Sitting at home eventually gets you back to old habits i.e. playing games. The best thing you could do is join a new class you like. Maybe your gym has fighting sports you find interesting? Maybe join a band? Videogames work on your imagination, because you simply want to be that person, why not do it in real life? I.e. I like the fantasy scene, swords etc. and I practise aikido. It's that line between fantasy and reality. If you like shooters don't join the army, but maybe paintball or a shooting range is something for you? The biggest difference between games and real life is you're out of your home actually doing something and making new friends with the same interest. And because they have the same interest, you can connect to them.

_________________
Optimistic?

Thanks for all the love Mungo.

When it comes to isolation this is hard sometimes. In most cases it is more like "hey I can't hear you". You can say all sorts of things to isolate. "Hey this is uncomfortable lets go sit over here." You are just literally looking for an excuse or you can just say "let's go over there". Then you guide them to where you want.

I will write up something on kissing in my Body Language thread, it is something that should is likely overdue.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

I wrote up a post on the body language leading to a kiss. It is in my body language thread.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Good responses on here, especially always assume all girls want you. Its a win win.

Look at the situation. hes ugly as shit, and even before he was famous, he played the numbers game, and assumed all girls wanted him and odds are he would get some.

but if your good looking, and assume no girls want you and dont take risks your odds are shit.

Pick up your balls and go for it.

Look at my sig for how to really get good

_________________
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

ITS A NUMBERS GAME

WHEN IN DOUBT WHIP IT OUT

These are all great posts.
I command and applaud all those who came to aide him.

ok from what I've read, you have great looks, you're fairly confident, and you don't have the problem most people here have.

so you've got the outer-game down pat,
but obviously your inner game is suffering and if you don't resolve that.....then your outer game may also become affected.

this is a great thread, but I can't help the feeling that the problem still persists.
if this is true then I don't know exactly where you problem lies, and I'm not sure that you know specifically where your problem lies... because its not the video games. thus seeking professional help is advised.

I wanna truly help you personally, with your problem but I'm not sure what you expect to attain with the PUA knowledge and what you intend to accomplish with it. Basically, I'm asking you, with this knowledge do you want constant lays or are you seeking LTR?
the answer to this question will really help in conquering this dilemma.

_________________
DISCLAIMER: All things said/suggested by "civilian" are strictly for entertainment and general information purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. I accept no Liability for such comments or suggestions whatsoever.

Thanks everyone for the advice. Quick Update.

I've brought two girls to my room and didn't quite know how to kiss-close without feeling awkward (Despite reading poeticlyskuac's post in the body language thread.) I didn't know how to initiate the kiss or close the space without feeling awkward and non-sexual. I'm more used to masturbating to girls that are this hot - and (despite leading the situation to the point where they accept lying on my bed with me in my room) I just feel awkward and unable to convey sexuality physically.

I tried to kiss one of the girls that I brought back, and I have a feeling that she would have loved to if I stuck with it longer. She was spooning with me, and seemed to really enjoy spending time with me.

There comes a point in my interaction where I realize that I have nothing to do. The girl is just standing/sitting there and I go completely blank. I even cut my meeting with one girl short by lying and saying that I had class. A few years ago I would have considered this girl WAY out of my league. I had my arms around her and she fell into them while in my bed listening to music with. I felt awkward at the thought of going in for a kiss (though I did kiss her neck a little.) She even told me, "This feels weird." To which I responded honestly, "Yea, I'm definately kind of weird." She said something along the lines of, "That's cool, I don't mind weird."

Later on I left the bedroom to show her some songs (I play guitar and sing very well.) She loved it completely (I expected as much - as it's one of my talents.)
After playing I had no idea what to do. I was really attracted to her, but in the moment I felt lame. My internal dialogoue was similar to "Shit...What do I do, she's sitting at the opposite side of the couch and I don't know how to get close to her. I have nothing to do, but she's here so she obviously likes me and wants me to have the balls to at least try something." I didn't know how to move next to her without seeming needy/creepy. The only way that I felt that I could still have her think of me as an attractive man was to tell her that I had class. She walked me to class and I gave her a genuine hug after.
I've texted her since, and she's been playing me, telling me she wants to see a movie and then flaking, but I still think she's attracted to me. I've texted her since and made some jokes about her masturbating. Even told her that she did something that I wouldn't tolerate and that she, "Clearly wasn't being spanked enough."

It's gotten to the point where I've been thinking that I could be gay - but I'm not really physically attracted to men. I just have no idea what to say do when everything lines up perfectly.

Needless to say, because this is a problem that takes investment and occurs later down the line in the "pickup" it is ridiculously frustrating and is starting to make me care less and less about other things (like working out.) Although I know it is a bad reaction, I feel lame working to make myself more attractive if I'm at a loss for what to do anyway.

Also, I'm not afraid of being sexual verbally. Recently (since I started this thread) I have little trouble seeing a girl that I know who is obviously attracted to me and asking, "Is it bad that I want to fuck your brains out?" In fact, sometimes I feel pressure to say this because it seems to be what she wants to here.

Thanks in advance for everything.


-Bennn

Sounds like you spend a lot of time thinking. STOP IMMEDIATELY. Be aware but don't think. What should I do is the worst question you could possibly ask in this situation. ELEVATE and be aware of her reaction. I wrote a nice little post about kissing about 5 or so days ago here is a copy:


Building Up for the Kiss

In order to get to that magic kiss, something we all struggle to do from time to time. You only have to follow the natural steps of courtship: Attention, Recognition, Interaction (talking), Touch, and finally our favorite part of all SEX. Most pick up artists have routines and know what to say to get a kiss. Most naturals know how to create an intimate moment to get a kiss. There are certain things you should be doing to build sexual tension for an easy first kiss. I am skipping the first two steps since you guys should have an understanding of what they are (ask if you have a question thought).

Once you are interacting with a girl you should start building sexual tension (which there may already be). The start of it is for your torsos to start to angle toward each other, you can slowly go at their pace (turn slightly as they do). The distance should begin to close and you guys should start to be comfortable at a closer distance.

You start angling you body at her at the same rate, than close the distance as she leans in slowly, and lean in the same distance you are moving at her pace which she is comfortable with. Careful not to overstep you bounds, just do what you are allowed to do. I like to joke and turn my torso a little more toward them than move it back and measure their reaction. Kind of a version of 2 steps forward 1 step back at the beginning.

You should be allowed into her intimate space (for a lot of people it is like 1-3 feet) with a slow easy elevation. You need to slowly and comfortably invade her space. Believe it or not as you close the distance you are elevating the intimacy of the moment. Sometimes guys will close on the space to quickly and make a girl uncomfortable. It will seem very threatening, desperate, or needy if you close in on their space before you are allowed to, so make sure you are allowed to go there before you do. I guess it is kind of a micro elevation even if it is just closing the distance slowly or angling torsos toward each other slowly.

During the interaction you should be slowly making stronger eye contact. A good way to build sexual tension through elevation is to do what is called an intimate gaze. It is where you go from one eye to the other eye than down to the nose, I prefer eye to eye to lips. I do this repetitively through out the interaction more and more often with the rising comfort level. Something else we talked about already was aligning your right eyes gaze into each other’s for a moment this will help build a very deep and intimate connection. The sexual tension rises tremendously.

As courtship escalates your space will decrease until you are very close together and comfortable in each other’s intimate space. You should have been scattering touch through out your interaction and touching hot spots to build sexual tension. Starting to touch in non-threatening places such as the upper shoulder or bumping into her shoulder here and there flirting even before closing the distance (2 steps forward 1 step back).

As you start to get to the point where she is comfortable with you in her intimate space and touch is accepted comfortably. You should have built sexual tension (the attraction cues you guys now know) you merely have to find (or create) a moment where you guys make solid silent eye contact for a moment (5 seconds is more than enough) and fall into the kiss. Don’t try to kiss but fall into the kiss. You can do the intimate gaze somewhere in that silent moment than fall into a kiss (staring at a girls soft subtle lips is hard to pass up on). Ask any questions guys.


Biscione asked a few more question and I answered. If you haven't read it yet I suggest reading that and perhaps the rest of the posts by me and Biscione, may be a good idea he asked some good questions.



To You

I kissed a girl last night, all I did was give her a hug, kiss her neck, and kiss her. It wasn't difficult.

Elevate Your KINO

I suggest you start out by rubbing the top of their back/shoulders with one hand(as if your standing next to her). Slowly rub upper back and than lower back. Move your hand to her lower back than back up until your hand is mostly rubbing her lower back. You can rest your hand in her back pocket at this point. Your arms are likely around each other.

Don't worry about space all that much once you start realizing they are attracted to you, the amount of space you are allowed when they are attracted to you is very small. You need to close the space. These women want you to close that space, you need to LISTEN.

If a girl in college is in your room alone with you what the hell do you think she wants? She wants YOU to PHUCK her brains out. That is it. She doesn't want to talk, she doesn't want to build more sexual tension it is there, why the hell else would she be lying in your bed? A girl brings you to her bed or goes to yours there is only one reason, and that is sex. Sure there are those girls you end up to good of friends with but that is rare(I have had one).

On a Bed...

This is my suggestion, when you are lying next to each other in bed make strong eye contact. Do the intimate triangular gaze(eye to eye to lips, repeat). Look over and start or say let's play the staring game. Let her know you are very good at this game, don't look away, kind of making it competitive. The right eye trick during the staring game is awesome. When this happens after 5 seconds start leaning forward. Touch her somewhere, if you are facing her you can go with the arm, I go for the outside of her thigh. Start to move closer slowly(not like a snail, just so it isn't threatening)

Pull yourself closer and just kiss her, she knows it is coming. She wants it to come, and you need to do what she wants. Don't think about it, if you have to than count to five and say now(in your head). Don't say when I count to five or after I count to five. Count to five and kiss.

Rub Her Back

This is my favorite touch in the world, everyone loves a back rub. EVERYONE. When I am next to a girl(that I am after) I just end up rubbing her back or shoulders(if they are rock solid tight shoulders I say what is up, something bothering you). If you are on the bed, if you are standing, or sitting rubbing their back is awesome.

I use my finger tips to rub backs. I don't use my palm, I let my fingers sensually rub her back. She needs to understand how you were touching her and how you will touch her.

If you want practice giving back rubs, just tell a girl you want to learn to give a better back rub. I don't know anyone who turns down a back rub.


ASK ME QUESTIONS. I listed a lot of info. Tell me what you want to know. You are very vague. You seem to suffering from fear of elevation (a form of rejection), and just thinking to damn much.

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Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Stop over thinking this, i have read some of the replies to this thread and personally i think they are just going to confuse you.

You're not getting what you want because you're too scared to move out of your comfort zone. All you need to do is to consistently push yourself out of your comfort zone. If you want to kiss the girl then kiss the girl dont over think it, just push through your fear and let the chips fall where they may.

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