I can talk to women, approach if need be, create conversation and hook them in, and 90% of the time I can number / take her home close.

However what I find the most troubling, is Eye Contact... I have like this reflex of when I look at a girl n she looks back, I pretty sharpish look away. I naturally give out a forced smile and never look a 2nd time.

So can anyone give me some eye contact pointers, I always assume if I look twice I'm staring and being labelled as that freaky guy who's staring. For example, if I lock eyes with a girl what should be a non intimidating time period.

Any pointers or tips are welcomed.

Thanks,
Sam

The only way I know is to push yourself. If a girl will feel awkward, she'll look away.

set yourself a goal to find out what her eye color is

breath out deeply a few time and physically relax your shoulders

smile when you look her in the eye

One of the challenges in Rules of the Game was talk to 5 strangers and record their eye color. Try that.

Or if that's a little too much, when watching tv/videos, make eye contact with everyone on screen and note the color of their eyes. You could also try making eye contact with your friends/coworkers until they break it first, all of the above worked greatly for me.

Always have in mind that you must hold eye contact no matter what. It soon because automatic and you automatically hold eye contact every time without even thinking about it.

I had the same problem until I joined this forum some weeks ago. It's one of the most important IOI's so I decided just to do it. Just make eye contact and see who wins. Remember, having eye contact takes 2 people. If she finds you awkward looking her in the eyes, you can say the same about her. Conclusion, as long as you have eye contact, it's ok for both of you. Especially when the eye contact repeats, she obviously doesn't mind.

HTH

Eye contact is very important in creating attraction.If you feel uncomfortable holding it with a beautiful girl there is an easy cheat.
Focus your gaze on the bridge of your targets nose.To them it looks like you are making full confident eye contact but to you it's not uncomfortable at all.

I heard of this "trick" a few times before, so I tested it on 2 female friends and they both noticed the difference between looking them in eyes or nose bridge (I asked them where I am looking them). I was within normal talking distance, so it is possible that it "works" on larger distance if you are referring to EC while approaching. It is also possible that they only noticed because I asked them and therefore brought attention to it, so I am not saying this "trick" is rubbish, but it definitely CAN be noticed, so be careful with it .

exercise with other people,in a short time you will get use to it

It can be noticed if you prime the targets reticular action system,by asking them to notice,they're picking up the gaze shift not the area you are looking at.

in theater i was always taught to look at the audiences foreheads... works most of the time unless your like an inch from her face... and at that point its just a matter of confidence

_________________
Why ask for permission when you can ask for forgiveness?

Ok so the EC isn't a prob for me. Here's my sticking point.. What are some good openers to use after u've made the EC? Women are too punk to open so what can I use that will keep the attraction and not come off as creepy or neeedy?

After long EC, you can't really go indirect, it would only show your lack of social intelligence. So go direct. You can just be spontaneous and tell her whatever comes to mind, or you can just tell her you want to meet her because she looks fun/cute or whatever. Go search for direct openers on forum and you will find many. Here are two I like:
"You can't look me like that without saying something." (there are many variations possible on that one)
"Can you please stop looking in my ass?" (If the situation is appropriate of course (she is standing behind you))

I can only agree with that.

First of all HI everyone, first post and day here

There is a science of eye contact, and transition from eye contact to speach or eye contact to direct physical contact. In my case, I used to be a pathologic shy guy (pb now solved), complexed about being too slim for my taste (though I now realize, past 30, that it's an advantage). I however have one good thing for me, my face seems above ok looking, so I get eye contact. However I messed up a lot before being able to convert it into action. I know apply theses rules :
- have fun with your mate, don't look like you hunt, very quick look around as if you don't care. Look smiley, relaxed, not giving a f ^^
- when eye contact happens, be realistic, it can be random. Give it a min or two to confirm that it's a genuine one, a sign of interest, but stay cool, not staring at her.
- 3rd time, make a eye signal, smile at her. that is the last eye contact, you should know make a move quick. There should also be other signs such as her talking to her friend, her friends checking you out etc.
- my approach, depending on the feel, situation, people around her : either direct (when they stare at me like they want me already), or fake an accidental walk by and say "hey, how are you?" (or whatever that is not risky, she likes you already, the opener can be neutral)
- in the lucky case were this is 4AM dancefloor drunk eye contact, she will insist a lot, not realize she is already 120% showing availability, you should dance closer, (no rush), act as if you're gonna kiss but not do it until she gets mad and nearly rapes you on the dance floor.

Last thing, confirmed by many female players: if you are good looking, or she likes you, she assumes other girls do. She also assumes you get plenty. So don't go to quick and too confident after eye contact or you can look like you do it 10 times a week. A little goofy is fine, you mess up, make fun of yourself, it works great. Never be ashame of anything

Lots of good advice. Thanks guys!