I dont really care what he is. It was a joke.

Natural game to me isnt being a "natural", we're still PUA's. It just means throwing away your systems, gambits and canned routines (DHV Stories etc). And having a normal conversation with intent and leading it where you want to it go. It's understanding how attraction works for her and flowing with it.

I also mix abit of NLP through my game I just don't post there because I find the SS guys abit weird.

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Sticksies PUA Blog http://sticksiespuablog.com

Poet man . . . I have always regarded self mockery as one of the finer genres of comedy but for some reason, i don't think that you're laughing at yourself. You should.
So you're saying that if I learn the cube and "You think I look like a drug dealer routine" well enough and do it over, over, and over again . . . I'll become a natural? Perhaps I should turn the cube into a habit? Niiice . . . natural . . .
No, this would be a way to learn many aspects of PU ideologies.
Hmm. . . I thought I saw a "category" on body language where people shared ideas about body language and its importance in PU.
So you followed the manual with your own brand of smile? Nice and natural . . .
If you TRULY believe this, consider yourself waaaaay back. STOP PLAGIARIZING old text books, Wikipedia, and some odd websites landed by Google search. You are by far the LEAST NATURAL wanna-be PU I've come across on this forum. There are NEWBIES here who have problems memorizing the "who lies more" opener who are more natural than you. At least they have soul. At least they have concerns. At least they raise issues in their life. All you do is copy/paste old crap and tap yourself on the back.
Where is the "you" in your posts?[/quote]

The old guy is running the cocky routine. He's sitting there . . . just pretending like it doesn't mean much. The lady . . .well she's direct isn't she? Running that roller double fisted with a fat smile on her face. But I'm pretty sure that they're both painting a fucking fence instead of fly fishing.

While Kasabi is not god by any level, generally speaking kasabi is very good at spotting charades and assessing peoples character, (in some cases better than the person themselves)

So would advise you to take kasabis advice on board.
--------------

The problem that is being raised here is that nothing in this category is actually natural.

What it seems you are doing is rather than copying body language and learning some conversational tricks to keep a health vibe. You have ironically in your hope to become more "natural" instead starting copying entire mindsets and world views.

You may not be a clone on the outside, but from perspectives worse, as you have started cloning yourself on the inside.

What you are hoping to achieve is inner game. Not natural game.

This sub-forum is not a natural one, most of the posts here are just paraphrases of other better and more comprehensive writing on inner game and self improvement.

-------

Natural game cannot be aqquired, and generally speaking it doesn't even fit in to the same frame as sarging as a PUA.

When you sarge you go out and you meet people and you pull.

Ever been out with a natural who is not a PUA?

I have done it a good couple of times and it often turns out to be hanging out in a bar or in a club and then WAITING for something to happen that will bring you into conversation with a chick, and then hoping she is hot. And the hoping she is into you, and then pulling. The one pull I did witness only happened becuase they were next to each-other while waiting for drinks.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with this, you can pull this way. And plenty of people do, all the power to them. But I enjoy PU because it gives the freedom to choose and be proactive.

----------

Outside of this while we are expressing thoughts about this category, looking over some threads here, often they seem to be written by the writer to convince himself of whatever shtick he is spouting, under the cognitive guise that he is "sharing his views".

Still doesn't change the fact that he did something incredibly hypocritical in starting a thread bitching about useless threads(useless thread much) in a useless section.

Written by the writer to convince himself of whatever shtick he is spouting. Don't say something like that when you are just sharing your views around half the forum, you are a hypocrite if you do such things. Yeah they are views, but pick up in general is nothing but views. Everything you said on views is conceptual. A natural has instinct and habit, nothing else. If you can instill that into yourself than you become a natural. If you are a good natural you get picked up on by the girl or you can go for whatever girl you want. I may not be the best with girls, but my tool set allows me to do solid with girls.

How you view things for yourself is pick up. One guy will say assume their is already sexual tension. Another guy will say you are the prize. These are all nothing but views on how to approach things. My approach on being a natural is all based off of body language. Courtship in general is based on body language, why would it be a bad thing to understand them.

I wrote up what I consider a solid thread that contained knowledge not everyone knows, he accused me of going to boot camps and this and that. Copying and pasting, apparently I am smart enough to be his college professor, I found it funny that he insulted my intellect while in effect saying I could be his teacher. Even funnier I got my knowledge of social proof from a book 30 years old, and he continued to insult me.

I assume Kasabi is solid he has a lot of posts, and votes, but at the end of the day he is still a arrogant hypocritical gentlemen. Say what you want about my views or my approaches to things but I am not at all using someone else's views. I have researched quite a bit about a lot of different things and for him to act as if I got my concepts from one source is ridiculous. I have gained a lot from a lot of different areas.

I expect everyone to read up it themselves but it is good to let people know this stuff exists. As far as putting it other sections absolutely, everything can be put in other sections. There are quite a few useless threads out there on every single section. In fact I would say that a good 20% of all of these forums is useless. Why point out this one section?

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

I'm going to be a litte frank with you, and describe exactly what I am perosnally seeing in your post, and my feelings on this disagreement.

The start of your post just begins with you displacing responsibility, rather than going, "ok maybe I should listen to someone who knows what they are talking about" you have shelled up and gone... I don't need to listen because he..... {insert excuse} [insert complaint]"

I don't think that is going to move you on at all. I'm not be-littling you in any way when I say Kasabi definatly has something worth teaching you and not just becuase he is an outside source.

Then you move to say that this sub-forum is okay becuase PU is up for interpretation.

In many ways you are right about opinions on PU. Doesn't change that some of them are inherintly better than others... and the fact that the term "Natural", is not one up for interpretation.

You then do something which is seen in High schools every day.

"Omg, she said my hair sucks, I was nearly crying with laughter inside becuase it's soooo ironic"

Again it's a case of you trying to convince yourself and on-lookers that in truth you are the victor and that the other persons comments have not damaged your self esteem in anyway.

---------

Should clarify that when kasabi "accused" you of ripping of bootcamps; I doubt it was a literal attack. What he was pointing out however is that none of the thoughts or theories you have presented are in anyway natural.

They come from other peoples works that you have read or heard, or from textbooks that you have read and lectures you have gone to.

--------

And you end the post with, "he is this, he is that, he is blah blah blah, I know him" just giving yourself reasons not to listen to what he is saying.

I had a very similar encounter with Kasabi just over a year ago, and I felt the exact same way you do now.

But after a while in my furious bitching I asked around, and I found out a little about Kasabi.

I'm not going to start disclosing Kasabi's life story here, it is not the time (nor is it my place to do so)

But trust me on this one, considering Kasabis background, if anyone in this room is spouting idiocy without reason or experience.

It's not kasabi.

Kasabi, doesn't mince his words and his medicine can taste nasty at times, but it's worth opening yourself to it.

Why can't I be the person who knows what their talking about? Why does he have to be? Because you know him he has more credibility with you that is all. You took his side because you knew him. Did I react immaturely and negatively? Absolutely but I also admitted it and replied with an apology, no where along the line was he willing to do the same. You have not taken a neutral stand on this at all, you merely took one guys side because you knew him.

We had a disagreement based off of opinion whatever. The difference being he was the hypocrite in starting a useless thread bitching about useless threads, he was in effect the offender. Yet I am suppose to be on the defense? I apologize but it is not my style to take the punch and not deliver one back. I am very good with words and influence, I have studied lots of books on it. I am very difficult to argue with and I know that.

Your Opinion states that Natural is not up for interpretation, I have met guys that were good with girls, but I wouldn't say they were Naturals. I firmly believe that you can do things until they become habit or natural. Yes it does start out unnatural as I have stated several times and apparently this is something none of you are willing to listen to, but it becomes natural as it becomes habit. It is as simple as that.

I am always crying laughter so your statement makes no sense. I laugh at everything, if you met me you would understand that. I am known for it by probably over 1000 people that come to my work(grocery store). I am referred to as the laughing boy, or happy boy or whatever else(kind of a baby face even at 27).

A online poster damage my self-esteem? Only someone with very low self esteem would allow someone from the internet to lower their self esteem. Apparently this has happened to you in the past because it is as if you have experienced this. This is a forum where people express their views, opinions, and concepts just like any other forum I am apart of, I don't take any of this personally. I do get frustrated with people when I start out friendly and then receive a hostile reply. Or when they start out Hostile.

Some people do things naturally, that is the concept of natural. However behavior can consciously be modified until it become natural habit, or just natural in general. Why is that not possible? Driving, Walking, Talking, Reading, all are things we learned that become natural, why would this be any different? No one has argued with this competently. All I hear is open your ears, while someone with closed ears is speaking. You guys are set in your thoughts and ways and I find it quite ironic that you are all calling me closed minded when you won't listen.

Should I expect a apology for you accusing me of being a high schooler? Some peoples OPINION on pick up are inherintly(is this a word?) is better? It is an opinion, what some people can do in pick up works with some personalities. With others it doesn't. A good example is the lamest AFC(or something thread) in the PUA lounge, I could actually use that and get away with it. While a ton of you guys have talked down upon it, some of us can do things other can't.

This is a civil argument and I appreciate that, you have not talked too negatively to me. However, I want you to look at it from the stand point of behavior being habit. A Natural's behavior is different than ours. His understanding is different than ours. However, you can instill all of these same things in yourself to become a natural. I have met guys that were obviously naturals for a long time(got most any girl, girls came to them, etc.) but no longer were, why can't the opposite be true?

Learning to become good with girls until it is natural is apparently not natural. So you are not natural with girls than? You are still awkward and unnatural with girls? Come on Fin I love these arguments, difference is I put a philosophical spin on things. You don't seem to ask enough questions.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

This is something I want to add, if you can't answer these questions in any of my posts without it shining light to my thoughts as good than you are most definitely not listening.

I am tired of seeing people write tons of statements while avoiding pertinent questions to the argument, it is very hard to argue with someone who asks the right questions. It is even harder to argue with someone who doesn't listen to them.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

I absolutely see your point. I just don't know what that has to do with the argument. The argument is you can become natural with girls. Not you can naturally be liked by girls. Any attractive fool can be liked. A natural is good with girls with out thought, something most people are looking to do.

This is why Body Language to me is the biggest part of being a natural, you are just proving my beliefs with you statements. Body Language(understanding it, reading it, and using it) is what can attract the attention to get any girl to like you. If you can have these things become natural you become a natural. Think about this Natural is about doing things subconsciously, instincts, anything can become instinct. A QB has instinct to throw the football to one spot on the grass where no one is, he didn't learn that at 2.

OPINIONS ARE NOT FACTS. STOP ARGUING AS IF YOU KNOW MORE THAN THE WORLD. SOMEONE UNWILLING TO LEARN OR LISTEN IS NEVER GOING TO ALLOW THEIRSELVES TO GO TO FAR. YOUR WORDS ARE NOT TRUTH THEY ARE OPINION.

We have different opinions on thoughts. You may define the word Nasty as disgusting, I use the word Nasty to describe like the word great. I say that is a Rough, that would me that nice. I say that is Solid, that means Cool. We all interpret thoughts different, you interpret natural as only since birth, I see natural as instilled habit.

This has been fun guys. I truly am enjoying this.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

1. It seems to be alerting people to the fact that this "natural game" spouted in here, is actually canned inner game speeches.

Would you like to explain how this thread is not useful?

2. You are right, I have taken Kasabi's side because I know of his experience and knowledge. But I don't know him.

Walk into a university lecture on psychology, like I'm guessing you do during term time. And Kasabi is better versed on the subject than they are.

I'm playing statistics here, becuase unless you have a Doctorate, or have say a good number of years as a therapist backing you. I will continue to hand it to Kasabi. That's how much respect I have for his opinion on these subjects.

What experience in the field of psychology and sociology do you have? What life experience do you have?

3. This is precisely Kasabis problem here, something natural came to a person origonally. It was not ingrained through books and seminars.

I learnt to power clean via teaching, and repitition. It is not a natural skill for me. It is and was a learned skill.

To claim habitual behaviours are the same as natural behaviours makes the term "natural" pretty meaningless don't you think?

4. And now you are validating yourself to everyone here. Why? You don't need to prove yourself, if you disagree with Kasabis views on this, then disagree and argue. No need to argue then go... "btw I am actually like this..."

Why are you telling me about how everyone see's you?

5. "What? A poster damage MY self esteem, GOD NO, I am not that low in self esteem, I AM ALPHA MALE, I don't care!" - This kind of response is not congruent with what the words imply.

And some ad hominem. You didn't like what Kasabi said, so you paint him black, you don't like what I say, and now you do the same to me. A pattern, coincidence?

Are you sure people are remarking with these comments purely becuase they are arrogant douchebags?

Is it not possible that you are trying to make this a personal war by demonsing Kasabi (and now me) so that you don't need to consider critisism?

6. Some PU styles are going to be better than others, this the consequence of having objectivity.

7. And our final stab, "this is a civil argument"; followed with passive aggression.

Again, to get anything out of what is being said you have to stop this idea of "me vs them" in your head.

You are telling people, I am listening, I am reasoning, but I feel that, that is not the whole truth.
----
I'll start first by admitting that I may be brushing over yourself becuase of what I know of Kasabi. I don't consider this to be that unfair, but I can appreciate that you do.

However I'm not wanting to get into this whole natural game debate for now. I have my own opinions on the subject and I find the approach of both camps to be extreme, and with pendulum influences.

I am writing this becuase I think YOU can benefit where I didn't.

I understand Kasabi's point. I really do, I think are disagreements stand as just our interpretation of the word Natural. I think things become Natural, where as your right he sees things as origins. So we really are only arguing over the interpretation. I don't know why I have heard the terms Natural Habit together in conjunction so many times if they are meaningless when put together.


I don't go to college, I didn't agree with structural learning. I am sure you have noticed, I don't like listening to someone else's opinion on something. I am most definitely not that intellectual, and I have already stated that Kasabi is likely smarter than me, but I will say that I have met people with PHDs, Bachelors, and Master that weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. They were merely workaholics that worked to get their grades. Their ability to absorb knowledge wasn't the impressive part, it was their work ethic and effort that helped them absorb knowledge. Kasabi is right about his opinion because of his degree makes no sense to me. His resume allows his opinion to be right. WOW!

I have already apologized for trying to qualify myself to him, why was that topic revisited?

I don't see this thread as useful because of his use of words to begin the thread. Or the title of the thread. Or his attitude through out it. None of it is necessary. He could have more tact, which he refused to use through out the thread.

When I write I go the extra bit to explain my self, so do they sound incongruence? NO. Your opinion of me is that I believe I am Alpha, I don't believe I am. I consistently submit to the Alpha male in the area, it doesn't matter that they are the dominant male in the area. Your Alpha argument: I really have two options when it comes to making comments about earlier statements either I can revisit it and argue it or I can avoid it and allow you to assume I feel I am in the wrong. Neither makes me look good, for this particular statement I will look bad no matter what I say.

If I am painting you black, than what has he done to me by trying to make me feel below him? What have you done to help? What has Ezo done to help? You guys have all tag teamed me. In fact put me in a corner and yet you still haven't seemed to prove a point. Just all stated similar opinions. You guys have tried to belittle me, take away any credibility(not that I have much) and set me in the corner. I refuse to allow you guys this right.

His SPAM of other posters is unacceptable. If he doesn't agree he can start out with more tact. Something he lacks. I have made statements to make you look bad but not once have I said something bad about you. Seeing as you guys have done the same about me.

I told you I am very difficult to argue with, persuasion and influence are something I have worked at and studied until it became easy or habit or something unnatural that happens in fluidity(since this is how you seem to understand it). This is fun though.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Because you might as well be painting a fence.
Constant laughter and gross displays of happiness are often masks for pain and sadness. You're the "body language expert". Try meditating in front of a mirror for merely 5 minutes.

There's no need to praise or apologize. There's no reason to qualify or be qualified. You're pulling definitions out of the sky in order to retain the "natural" title. Why is this so important to you? What do you think this label does for you? I urge you to try the mirror meditation out for yourself; if you're fortunate enough to figure out your answer, keep it sacred. . . accept it and grow from it.

. . . Or you can laugh it off and continue to paint the fence. As you continue to 'teach us', behavior is habitual. And if so, it would be logical to think that the way a person is viewed and treated by others would be just as consistent and repetitive as his behavior.

1. Everything your wrote in this thread is inconsistent with your self-praised stories of the way you behave in 'real life'.
2. The way people view you here is inconsistent with the way you tell us people view you in 'real life'.
No, it's difficult for others to discuss/argue with you because you lack basic conversation and writing skills. Your lack of organization and tendencies to refute an argument without first identifying the issues of the discussion would get you cut from an average junior high school debate team.

Cool man, you are better than me in every way, I apologize, have smooth life.

Peace

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Hats Off to Kasabi and Poetic... and they Live Happily Ever After.
Happy Ending. LOL!

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A's Ranks Higher than King and Queen

I agree with Kasabi 100%, and here is why.

Natural game is just that, NATURAL. This section of the forum is NOT called the NATURAL/NATURAL HABITS thread.

I quit posting in this section because I can no longer tell what is in fact natural game, and what is natural habit that I have pickedup.
You can learn the habits to become more like a natural would do, but this doesn't make you any more of a natural. I'll use driving as an example since you mentioned it. I'll try to break this down to a non Phd level so it should be very easy to understand.

When you first learned to drive, did anyone tell you to put the key in the ignition or the car will never move? Did someone say, turn the steering wheel to the right, if you would like to turn right? Did they say, looking at the rearview mirror is easier than spinning your body around to see who is behind you? Im guessing not. You NATURALLY picked these things up either consciously or subconscioulsy. You might not have known how to do other things that are now a NATURAL HABIT. You might have had to taught how to engage a clutch on a 5 speed, downshift, or merge into traffic, etc. Whilst you can do these things now and are a very capable driver, this does not make you a NATURAL driver. If a natural driver were to exist, you could simply throw the keys at them and they would drive like a professional. No reading how to manuals, no internet driving forum, and no driver telling him what to do. He would simply get in and go.

Kasabi, I almost posted this in this section, but opted out not to as it is about my friend who is an incredible natural.

the-best-natural-i-ever-knew-and-his-gr ... t73307.htm

To anyone else, do not start a pissing match with Kasabi, especially when he is correct. If you choose do so, he will simply own you...

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