Hmmm. I think if you're still thinking in terms of beating your competition when you're in the field, your head is in the wrong place. The game is to improve your own abilities and make the best version of yourself. That is completely isolated from how much of a chode the guys around you are. They don't factor in unless they're in your set. To be honest, pulling at a bar isn't a competition at all.

Say there are 10 men, 10 women. Lets say only 3 of the women are worthy of you. Out of the 10 men you are "competing" with, 8 or more will eliminate themselves from the field because they just don't have any game. You will still get one of your target girls. The other 7 women will go home disappointed. Now, if there's only one attractive, viable girl in the room, that's when it becomes a competition. And even then, I'm not so sure a girl really circulates the room and compares her options. It really seems like she'll just latch on to the first worthy guy that approaches her. It might just be more important to be the fastest guy.

If beating competition in field is your end goal, then you've got your head in a tottaly wrong place.

If you recognise that you will have to beat competition at some point to get what you want then your head is in a pragmatic place.

And no, the game isn't "about" anything. It's a tool, a repetoire of thoughts on how to pull. It has no objective creed to do with "making the best version of yourself"; that bit is a subjective thing and that is up to people and what they use game for.

Lets try this experiment, you are in set, another guy enters set. One of you is going pull that girl.

Why not ensure it is you, through whatever measures you want? (be that just ignoring him and letting him shoot himself in the foot, or befriending and framing yourself as the superior.)

Ultimatly it comes down to practicalities, you don't ever NEED to beat the other guy, but if you have the ability to it will open up some more opportunities.

That's true, the more abilities you have, the more opportunities you have. I guess my approach is different. I do use game for self improvement. I could just use it to pull, but if I improve myself, I'll be more desirable and it'll improve my odds of pulling anyway. In field, if I was in a set with a girl and another guy came barreling in; I'd just continue my interaction with the target. She'll gravitate to whoever is more attractive. I don't get in the mindset that I have to beat the guy. I'm in the mindset that I have to give the girl my most attractive self.

For the record I am one of those people who use/d game for self improvement. But I have gripes when we get ahead of ourselves and look at people who just use it for fun as something lesser. Like they are not following the "true PU meaning".

While I'm uncertain whether ingoring the other guy is Amogging I will concede that it is by far one of the best methods to use.

All of life is a competition. It's an economic thing. Too many people, not enough stuff, and humanities infinite want for "more" means that the game is rigged, and not everyone can be a winner.

Yeah, but I live in a superpower, old people and people with poor intellect and disabilities are the ones who tend to miss out on these so called "limited resources". I can afford gas, food, housing, and medical SPAM. I'm a minimalist, I have very little need for "more", I only NEED enough.

Everything I say is pretty much an opinion, are you telling me I'm not allowed to voice my opinion because it might not apply to everyone? The game is for self-improvement. Improving your ability with women is still a form of self improvement, just like going to the gym. It's just semantics, who freaking cares (besides me)?

Of course I'm going to ignore the guy if he interrupts my set and if the girl is tuned into my frame, she'll ignore the party pooper, too. I don't approach a girl in field to make friends with some random guy.

fighting has no value in a fun environment...

Need and want are entirely seperate things. Though we both live in super-powers the only reasons we do so is becuase other people are living in poverty. Similarly you will encounter situations on a more micro scale, where you will have to step on peoples toes. Hence As far as opinions goes, ; that is an objective statement not a subjective opinion. We're all absolutly free to our own independant opinions. But we are not free to make objective claims without them having some (objective) basis.

Of course PU changes people by giving them new abilities. But does that mean a cookery course is self improvement?

Self improvement is quite a specefic thing and it just loses all meaning when it is applied to everything that changes a persons capabilities.

Things can be used for self development, that however does not really make them self development in any objective sense.[/quote]

All schooling is self-improvement. All classes are self-improvement. All perception is subjective and idiosyncratic. But this is tiresome and way off topic. Go ahead and tell me how to talk, you have no sway over me, just as no one has to listen to me if I say the sky is violet. EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY! THE PURPOSE OF LEARNING GAME IS TO IMPROVE YOURSELF.

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31 and still figuring it out.

I suggest you look over a couple of posts made by kasabi.

Edit: He puts it rather neatly in this thread. who-gives-a-fuck-vp336282.html?highlight=#336282

Anyway...

In a community that has zero way to self regulate and relies on the honesty of it's members for good guidance and teaching. It's incredibly harmful to just spout and expect the inexperienced novices who don't know who to believe to sift through the information and know right from wrong advice.

Oh my god, Fin. You are SO right. I never thought of the poor newbies. My god, one of them might come into the game just looking to get laid, then he might read my despicably thoughtless quote "The game is to improve your own abilities and make the best version of yourself". Then he might actually be misled into improving himself in a bid to be a more attractive, fully formed human. No! It's too horrible! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I've done so much irreparable harm! How can I ever atone in one lifetime? I don't deserve to live! Ah, me! My poor, ignorant newbies, who have no judgment of their own and who I am entirely accountable for, forgive meeeEEEEEEEEE!!!



But thanks a lot, Fin, I mean it. I'm going on a date in an hour and it'll be good to bring this fun with me.

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31 and still figuring it out.

Nice man.

Reminds me of this time when I was in my first year of university. We had these dorm rooms with really heavy wooden doors and the assholes in the adjoining halls would bash them when they returned drunk from a night out, just to piss you off.

It was about 3am and I was in bed with my girlfriend when I hear frantic banging on all the doors down the corridor. Frat boys are running up and down the hall knocking on doors, shouting and waking everybody up.

Not one to back down from a fight I rolled out of bed and rose up high into the ceiling. I immediately transformed into a fucking iron eagle and flew straight out my door. Exploding into the corridor in a shower of splintered door, I shrieked - "EAGLE ATTACK!"

So horrifying was my keening cry that many of the frat boys were felled by my sonic fury then and there. Some, of a stronger fortitude remained standing but I simply opened my fucking iron beak and expelled a jet of burning mercury upon them. The after shock blew out every window in the dorm building.

Afterward, my girlfriend told me that I didn't handle the situation well. She was not impressed that I resorted to violence and that it wasn't smooth. At the core of it all, women like socially acceptable/valued men - a man who is violent is less socially acceptable in modern society.

I guess the moral of the story is this - don't get into fights. It does not impress women. Women want you to stand up for them and protect them, not beat up dudes in front of them.

I was constantly picked on as a kid but now I'm a trained soldier and frankly very few people in the streets could fuck me up. I take my girl out all the time and nobody has ever hit on her.

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Our work is never over...

90 percent of alphas i encounter who use intimidation tactics and violence to control others are oftentimes very easy to predict. they usually dont have a whole lot going on intellectually and are quite often used to getting their way through these rather crude methods. they can easily be contained however by making them feel like exactly what they are... social outcasts

if an alpha says something disrespectful or rude to me i will usually adopt a very playful smile and say in front of the set

"whats your name bro?"

-alpha pridefully illicits name- "BRAD"

"well you know what BRAD how bout i call you SALLY instead? [playful smile]

-set laughs and sees alpha get huffy and confused-

"im just messing with you SALLY..er..um BRIAN

-alpha "ITS BRAD!"

"oh right B..R..A..D (enunciate slowly) im just terrible with names" [playful smile]

-you can either box him out at this point or continue playing with him-

"you know what bro? you dont seem like you get out too much so how bout for the rest of the night you and me become best friends!

-say this animatedly and somewhat genuinly to confuse him. make sure you smile your widest lets be friends smile after you say this you can now wrap your arm around his neck which will be assumed a friendly gesture... however if youve done your homework you know it is a very dominant and possesive action which the set will pick up on instictively

never try to beat an alpha at his own game (you are classier than that) and never box yourself in with words. when he recognizes your ability to embarrass and confuse him in front of people he will move on. also high energy and an unwavering smile are very intimidating to an alpha. if he cannot figure you out he will not escalate because at his core he is incredibly insecure.

the last thing you want an hb10 to see is that you are nervous or uncomfortable in front of her. this goes the same for any alpha with violent tendencies. NEVER allow an alpha to see any weakness or discomfort in you or he WILL turn into a problem.

I think knowing how to fight is awesome. I'm a somewhat small guy and I recently started doing boxing. Knowing that I have the ability to defend myself makes me that much more comfortable. I used to be afraid to talk to anyone at the club or even look at a guy the wrong way because I'd be afraid of getting my ass kicked. I'm actually a super nice guy so I never go around looking for a fight, but I took boxing knowing full well that it would make me feel more confident in environments that I'm not normally used to.

That being said, starting fights is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I could never wrap my mind around why people started fights at the club/bar in the first place and in my eyes, that is a major DLV.

The only reason I learned how to box in the first place was to:

1. Build an attractive lifestyle.
2. Learn how to defend myself and my girl if ever needed.
3. Because it's fucking fun as hell.
4. Stay physically fit.

If you need to fight to prove you're "alpha" you've already lost. Kill them with words, not with your fists.

a lot of posters are defending their personal ideology and thats ok, but lets get back to the original question.

First of all, if a kid gets bullied in school, he may be told not to fight, or he may not fight because he doesn't want to get into trouble, etc. What happens to that kid is that no matter how old he gets, he always wishes he had smashed that bully in the mouth if he never did. That causes a lot of insecurity about ones masculinity, reduces confidence, and contributes to Beta personality traits and behaviors.

As far as whether Alpha males fight or not, well you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think they would never fight. Its good to use your brain and think of consequences, but there are times that if you don't fight you can lose everything including your self respect. Alpha's fight in non-violent ways constantly and in violent ways if it is necessary.

A high beta type, may be the guy who wants to start the fight in order to prove himself.