Guys,Im a lot frustrated for the past few days of gaming this virgin plumper in my neighborhood.

I typically DONT sarge girls under 30but I just felt an uncontrollable attraction for this girl.

I usually see her in my neighborhood;she's the shiest girl ever met.

So I gamed her on facebook[less pressure for a shy girl]and #closed,etc.

That was over 4 months ago(lol).

I usually give up on a chicc after a week of major BS and immaturity.

But for some reason,perhaps the allure of her being a virgin,Im willing to go through all the head games that I would NOT take from other chiccs.

This' her baccground:She's a virgin,never had a relationship beside puppy-love stuff,have strict parents so they raised her as an introvert and overly anti-social.She hasnt have much contact with men(kisses,dating,etc)...Basically,she doesnt know shit about male-female dynamics besides what she hears from her peers.

Note:In the Caribbean(where I am),the ppl are very much conservative & introverted,so it's common to run into a 25 year old virgin male or female.

Now that a plus and a minus for a social guy like me who was raised in NYC(lol).

Anyway guys,despite her lack of experience with men and socializing,as I've learned,women are way more savy to social dynamics than us,so she's very aware of the process of seduction.

She's fuccing killing me with push-pull!!

Im not expecting those tactics from a fresh meat(lol),or a girl who've never been exposed to the world of love,sex,men,etc.!!!

Phone game is a headache.

If I call her 7 times a week(once a day),I'd only reach her 1-2 times.

To me,this seems calculated by her.It's as if she's playing hard-to-get,cat & mouse.

It's as if she knows that she has to appear to be distant,unavailable and stuff,and not appear to be too easy.

Either that or she's just too shy to answer her phone.

Flakes(lol)!!!Ah man,she flakes on me almost every single time.

Im unable to build comfort with her in person since she always flakes on the meet.

Comfort building via phone obviously isnt working to allay her fears...

I was only able to meet her like twice over the past 4 months(lol),and that was by chance.

So guys,she flakes,doesnt commit to the meet up,hardly answers phone...

It's hard to cracc this girl since she wont open up much so I use the 90-10 concept with her where Im talking 90% of the time.

I know this sounds AFC'ish but I'd asked her if she likes me.She replied,"I like everyone".

What!!That answer totally fuccing derailed my program.

It's as if she using indifferent tactics here on me to leave me guessing...or she's just too shy to admit.

Anyway guys,I'd managed to set up a meet last night with her by meeting her at her place[so I thought],but she flaked via text by saying she's busy helping her mother with...

So I called her[I was pissed because I'd already left my place and got all ready for some light KINO & K close].

She never answered(lol)! I was furious!

Guys,this 18 year old virgin has me by the balls right now!!!

I must admit that she's a savage at game and how to throw me off.

But I see it as head games.

Im pissed,since I've been gaming her over 4 months(on & off),when inany other case,I'd have already cut my loses.

But Im wondering if to be persistence.

Tyler Durden once wrote(years ago in a newsletter)that persistence is king;basically,a guy shouldnt give up easily.

I'd tried giving her space(tactically by not calling her)to make her chase me.

She did take the bait and call me after 4 days...

But I just fucking jaded & fed up at her unwillingness to meet up.

I was,and want to remain persistent,but Im thinking about giving up on seducing this chicc.

_________________
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What happened to that girlfriend you love, man?

_________________
31 and still figuring it out.

Lol,come on Minsok,you didnt have to put me on the spot like that.

We're still together trying to iron out the BS.

But I do still sarge to be honest,but more so just to be social.

But this 18 year old[Im 28]just had an appeal to me that's some-what irresistable.

Anyway,good to know that you Minsok actually follows posts that you've previously give advise on.

Advise me on this one then.

Would you give up on a chicc who's flaking you to death,or would you stay in the trenches and find a way even when seeming impossible?

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Well. The only thing I see is to break routines.
She got used to your daily calls - give her 3-6 days break.

And - don't invest too much into her. For now you make yourself burning, not her.
Play around while here let waterdrops drill into stone.
Sometimes competitors make miracles.
Is it possible that she casually notices you being with other woman somewhere in public ?

Every time you call her, are you pushing to meet up? Calling and then not mentioning meeting up might screw with her. But yeah, if she won't even agree to meet you, I think you're sunk. I got obsessed with a flirty virgin when I first started here. I was an AFC, so the one time I got her to my house I didn't do anything. My pride still hurts, but the girl wasn't worth all the effort and frustration, even if I did crack her. Things ended badly, I ended up leaving her on the side of the road after she went nuts in my car.

But anyway, you shouldn't be wasting a lot of time calling her and if she's avoiding you, you might put it out there that you only want FRIENDS who want to do things, not just talk all the time. Are you inviting her to do different things, or is it always, come to my house, or I'll go over there, etc?

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31 and still figuring it out.

Thanks for the reply Returner.

You're definitely right about her getting used to the routine of me calling her daily.

And as you said,give her 4-6 day breaks from calling.

How f'ing ironic,I did go bout 4 days without calling and she called me instead(for the 1st. time)on the 4th.day.

So I know that if give her space,she'll chase.

Problem is,I'd still have to be doing most of gaming trying to open her,as if I'd called her.

She literally went silent for like 45 sec. once I didnt talk.So she relies on me for keepin the convo'-ball rolling;I have no prob' with that.

S you said Returner,I invested too much time,thought into her.

That's my major downfall;always puttng in too much effort.

Now as far as competition,Im highly aware of this concept.

My facebook profile is specifically geared toward pre-selection.

Since she lives in my neighborhood,her peer-group knows of me(also she does too)and my rep' as a social guy or in other words-a male whore(lol).

She'd told me in 1 of our chats that her friends told her that I regularly deal with many women.

Of course I didnt bitch out and say 'NO'.I amped it up and say that I do date and had been accused of sleeping around in the past.

So she is aware of me in that sense.

I see it as a plus Returner.

As I said,freezing her out or giving her space from calling her,it does work when I tried it once.

So maybe thats the elusive remedy.

But the witch would not commit to a meet.And when she does,she flakes 98% of times.

So comfort,or lack of it is the issue.

She's ultra shy,and maybe I'd presented her with too much social value to the point that she cannot understand how a high-value guy like I am would be intrestd in a girl of no social value like she is.

I guess Im like a cleb' to her,where Im not human,so it scares her.

If I'd play it down and appear more normal,having less value,maybe she'd be comfort' to meet more.

Just a thought.

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Hey Minsok,I so appreciate your advice on the forum and this case.

You're always on point.

I get your point about breaking routine.

Every single time I call I do push for the 'meet',unless it's too late at night.

I could imagine not pushing for the meet would short-circuit her.

She does agree to meet.It's just that she flakes 98% of times Minsok.

Lol,I had to laugh at your situation with your virgin obsssion and how you had her at your house but didnt take advantage.

I've never invited her for us to do things.

She's super reserved so I figure that something semi-adventurous would be too much.

Update:Well,I called her is evening;to set up the meet as usual.

She told me that she'd be busy tonight so she cannot guarantee a meet.She said call her bacc at 7:30.It's now after 8 and she's not answering(lol).

This witch got me fed up with this flakey shit!

I know that if I give her space she'd then chase as she did previously(once).

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Yeah, don't remind me about that missed opportunity. I wonder if I'll ever get completely over that. Damn virgins. Invite her to do something she's interested in, give her a reason to go out that isn't just you. Wherever you get her you can use kino. Don't call a girl back if she tells you to, that's usually a sign she's not interested and will avoid you. Either she'll agree to meet you immediately or she doesn't want to. You calling back at specific times she gives you also shows her that you're well trained. Next time she tells you to call back, grow a spine and be like "I'm not going to do that. If you're not in, I'm just going to make other plans now, I'm not going to blow off other people for the CHANCE to see you." Either way, when it looks like she's flaking, make other plans. Also, sometimes when she calls, cut the call short, tell her you'll call her back in ten minutes and then don't call her back at all. You're too available.

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31 and still figuring it out.

The thing is,Im not a virgin-lover.

I never had the cravings for a virgin;I'v always prefered a sexually experienced chicc.

But this plumper has major-sex appeal.

But I DLV'd myself constantly in this case.

Every wrong move really comes back to me-the guy.

If I play the hand right,the seduction would go more favorably for me.

I know all that.It's just to act on it.

But Minsok,I wonder if there's some psycology supporting this.

Meaning,ppl in general(humans)are some-what vaguely attracted to pain or heart ache or something.

I mean,I know all the right from wrong moves to make.

I know why tings are fuccing up in this case.

I know what I have to do to turn the tide(push-pull,absence,give her space,dont call,etc.).

Knowing all that,I or humans in general still make the wrong moves,decisions & choices;knowing they'll get burn.

It's like the more elusive & hot & cold this chicc is,the more Im compelled to chase and call and set up meets;knowing she's most likely to fuck me!

It's sought of like wanting what we cant have but this' deeper.

Im aware that if I give her space,she'll chase.

Yet,I dont give her space(lol)!!

It's like subconsciously,Im drawn to the chase and challenge of winning the girl by being agressive(the persuer).

I said to myself,"Im not gonna call this chicc today".

Well I did. I calld her more than 4 times(reached her once).

This' really a major challenge to my inner-game to see what Im really made of.

I thought I had my inner-game stuff on total lock down(lol)!

Ok Minsok and others,

Let's assume I manage to give her space and not call nor text in about 4-5 days.

She will call me,judging from what she did when I frozed her out for 4 days.

How should I progress from there when she does call?

Lol,oh I got it Minsok;cut the convo short and seem to be busy and unavailble.

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The correct term is cherry hound. I like it because it's exotic, like sushi. You make the wrong moves because you're weak. Basically the wrong moves boil down to needy behaviors. These come from insecurity, always. You KNOW she's going to call you in four days, but what if-? That's your insecurity showing. What the hell excuses is she even giving you for acting like this? Does she respect you enough to even give you excuses, or does she know you're her AFC dog and she can treat you however she likes? Either way, it's now your job to discipline her. You call her out on her bullshit, you give her a hard time for always being a flake, if you know she's going to flake, tell her you're not putting up with that shit anymore and she can come to you when she's done acting like a kid. Plus, she's chunky, she's probably just as insecure as you, which is why she acts this way. You're not acting like you're worthy of her respect, so why would she treat you like anything more than a dog? You don't fuck a dog. I misjudged you, too. I thought you were better than this.

Hmm, but now that I think about it, this is a lot like your last issue. You're being the needy girl in the relationship while she's probably out stringing along dozens of guys like you, like a PUA of sorts. You did say it was a sticking point of yours, so I guess it makes sense. Just get the self-control not to call someone like an obsessive girl.

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31 and still figuring it out.

Right on Minsok;I dont mine a scolding/wake-up call when it's needed.

And I need one right about now,so thanks man.

You made few major points concerning my mental frame when it comes to her calling me bacc in about 4 days.

I do say to myself,"what if"...
What if she doesnt call within 4-5 days?
What if she's willing to meet one of the nights I plan on freezing her out,but because I didnt call...
What if she thinks I gave up and then decide to give up also?

So you're rigt Minsok;it's alot of "what ifs" circulating in my head,and it's fucking insecurity.

Her excuses for acting like this[flakes] are:Im too busy,I have to help...,It's chilly outside,Im too agressive[I KINO' her instantly in our 2nd meet)...

Her excuses for not returning calls an not answering are:She's busy,didnt her phone(lol),left her phone by her aunts(lol)...

To me,typical BS reasons and I'd usually have to fish the reasons out of her,which answers your question about her not respecting enough to even give excuses.

I do call her out on her flaky shit but I come off too agressive about it to the point that she says that I love to argue(lol).

Oh yea Minsok,I feel she's dealing with major insecurities too:being a plumper or fat,being a virgin,no experience in guys...

I think she still wonders,why the hell a cool guy like me would be interested in a fat virgin like her.

I think that plays on her mind and I have way more social val' than her.

Lol,Im still impressed that you follow or remember my other posts(lol).

With my MILF gf(who Im still with),I have these same issues of neediness and bitchiness.

Anyway Minsok,I believe once I tone down the neediness,stop calling,the virgin will come around gradually.

But I have way too much social value for her and thats a prob'.

Se has no value(socially),she's what society considers fat(eventhough she's just plus size,not obese-lol)...

So Im some what of a rockstar to her.

Perhaps if I tone it down(the cool-guy persona)she'd start to see me as equals-in the sense of social value.

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