Hi there folks,
OK, so I'm a newbie and need all the help I can get.
I was in a long term relationship that ended about a year ago, and now starting to date and of coarse I'm not that good .
I always get good initial responses as I'm funny and can keep the conversation flowing. And always seem to do good on a first date. But then I screw up.
Anyways, I met this lady, we went out for a nice dinner and we had a great time. During our conversation she told me that she's a widow and that after her husband (who was her high school sweetheart) passed, she basically was living in a daze for like 5 years, but now she realizes that life goes on. She basically hasn't slept with anybody else other than her late husband. Then she said that she would like to take things very slow, so I kinda thought she wasn't that interested. But the next day she calls and invites me out. So, again, we have a good time, and I start to touch her arm, or shoulder as I talk, but now she drops another bomb saying that she doesn't like to be touched because I guess her mom used to poke her in the ribs or something like that. So, I started to kinda joke about it, and every once in a while I would tell her not to touch me, or I would touch her and then pretend that I had forgotten, and she would laugh.
So then I start to like her and I think she starts to sense that cause after the third date, I started getting less texts and calls, and she answered the last text like 7 hours later with "let's talk soon" .
So I pulled back for a couple of days, then she starts to text me asking me how my week is looking. So I wait for a few hours and tell her that I'm quite busy but maybe we can still go out. So, in the end we go out, and although we have a great time, I feel that I'm loosing my game, and entering the friend zone. I also think that she might also be loosing interest (fewer calls and texts).
I really like her, but it's been 3 days and I've been freezing her and I've to say it does hurt. I don't know what to do. I know I made some mistakes by sort of letting her know that I do like her, and as I'm very rusty at dating, I might have said the wrong thing here and there. So did I loose her? Should I call her? I tried to talk to other ladies but somehow she's taken control of my mind to the point that I don't want to talk to anyone else.
Thanks folks in advance

1. Break your post apart so it's easier to be read.

2. You're dealing with an emotional wreck, and you're letting her think that you are trying to pursue something real with her. She needs a rebound or 10 before she can "replace" her husband, because even if thats not your intent, or hers, that is essentially what you are doing.

3. Teasing her is good, but if you do it to much and to soon in between, she is going to think you are to pushy.

4. If I was you I would simply turn it into a friendship and include her in your social circle, have her be a pivot.

5. Date other women, and if you are still gaming her, come back.

6. Break your post apart.

_________________
"Once you have achieved perfection, you have achieved failure." - Me

Thanks for the quick reply.

I will break my posts apart.

dude it MAY be too late for this now...but for future reference you can always take advantage of just leaving a relationship.

Tell her you really cared for your ex but things just didn't work out and you had to move on. Tell her that your just testing the waters, want to have some fun and get to know people and absoultely not looking for anything serious.

When you put this out there so clearly it will take all the pressure of moving too fast off of her. SHe will be able to feel comfortable just having fun. Plus it makes you look good because you're comfortable picking up and walking away when you want.

I would of even used the fact that she has that baggage as a challenge that she couldn't have fun with me. That way when you can kino and close, if she shows resistance you can just say.."see? told ya so! i dont think this is going to work out, im really just looking for fun"

if you ever had a chance i think that will get you in...if not then she just isn't ready to let go.

Thanks for the great replies.

Deviated, regarding teasing you're right, and I don't do it too much. Also I will try to date other woman, but I still want to continue gaming her.

ajmn86, I did tell her that I was in a long term relationship but nothing more really.
Also regarding her feeling comfortable, I told her that we're just having fun, and it's OK to move slow, although I don't know if this was the right thing to say cause it slowly started to put me in the friend zone.

I wanna get out of that zone somehow.

The point is, since I haven't talked to her for a few days, I don't know what my next move should be. I wanna text her with a "knock, knock" text maybe, and see if she'll respond, but am hesitant .

OK, update, actually not a very good one.

She calls me, and asks how I'm doing, so I say that I'm doing great and been very busy lately, then she starts to talk about her weekend blah, blah

In the middle of the conversation she drops a bomb saying that she thinks that I'm expecting too much from her too soon, to which I respond that I've already made it clear that we're just going out to have a good time and that I'm taking things slow.

She then says that I mentioned during the date that I had a female race car driver friend and it would be cool to go watch her next week and that I mentioned that even before our dinner was served, like I'm already making plans for our upcoming date.

I said I never though of it that way and that it was just an idea that popped into my head that's all.

so her tone changes, kinda serious, and she says that I'm talking over her, which
totally took me by surprise, but I didn't apologize and told her to go ahead and talk, to which she replies that maybe this is not a good time to talk. She follows up by saying that she will call me later to which I said that's fine.

So now I'm in shock, our last date was good, and we were joking all the time.
Am I supposed to do nothing, like if I touch her shoulder or tease her a little bit then I'm a guy who asks for too much too soon?

She totally stepped on me and she did it in a five minute phone call. Needles to say
my self esteem is totally down and I feel horrible and don't know what to do about it. I always thought of myself as being an attractive, interesting guy, but at the
moment, I feel like shit.

What to do ?

Why be hesitant? What amount of influence does she have on your life and in your personal social circle? none? then go all in. You have *nothing* to lose.

a couple of days is good, 4 days is pushing it to the edge, and anything more than that just move on.

Learn some NLP techiniques on association/disassociation. take your time. make sure SHE knows you're not just a friend. I like to do this by calling it the "F-list" meaning the friend list, aka the fuck you buddy list. Puts a bad taste in her mouth about seeing you as only a friend, and eventually a good taste in her mouth, if you catch what im saying.

These situations are fragile and sensitive, so if you really want her, or want to fuck her, youre going to have to learn some Long-Game.

_________________
"Once you have achieved perfection, you have achieved failure." - Me

Ok this is a double post because you posted while I was writing up my last response.

Run. Forget her. She isn't coming back, and trust me, this has nothing to do with what you look like or how great of a guy you are.

It has to do with the fact that in her mind, she is still married, and she is looking for the quickest avenue of escape, a natural human instinct when moving through life (watch people avoid obstacles towards the easier route, not the shortest or most efficient one)

She is basically still hung up. You can *attempt* to save whatever you can, by simply letting her know you can't possibly relate to what she is going through, but you understand that this is a sensitive time in her life and that you will be there if she needs anything, for any reason, and not feel like she needs to reciprocate. Also, say you want to give her some space until she feels she is ready and that when she is, to contact you.

From there, just move on and forget about her. Chances are she won't ever talk to you again from here on out (with or without this response I gave you,) but if she does come around it won't be for at least 3 months, and maybe as long as 9.

Sorry this one let you down, but she is of no *real* relevance to how you lead your life, and she should be seen that way. The only people that should hold any weight in how you do things are the permanent people, like your closest friends, family, and co-workers. everyone else is just an extra.

_________________
"Once you have achieved perfection, you have achieved failure." - Me

Thanks Deviated for all the help.

I thought she was different, but having said that I think I have a lot to learn about
dating after being in a long term. I think I'm not good at Mid Game but I also felt
that my hands were tied because of her situation.

It's like damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I don't even know what I learned from this. She basically raised my hopes so high and then just dropped me. I went from "good morning prince charming" texts to "I'll call you later" in just a few days. She totally confused me.

I'm almost gun shy now, I don't want to go through this again but I guess I have to move on.

I'll say it again though, dating just sucks man .

dont be discouraged man. pick your battles a little better man. while im sure she is a great person, the reality is that she has some serious baggage and really isn't a good first target.


If you are truly only interested in dating then you have to clearly project this very early on. Women appreciate it when you're up front, no matter how bad it sounds in your head it never seems to effect women the same way.

for example, saying "right now, i want a a girl(yes girl! lol when they call u on it be like"oh yeah you ARE a woman, sorry")(also sets up some good negging/teasing in the future and tells you something about THEIR state of mind and if she really turns bitchy then tell her "wow are you always this uptight? lighten up!"

the point being to turn everything back on them, reject the pressure and anxiety you're going through and put it on her.

anyways! "right now, i want a sexy girl i can have some "fun" with....*PAUSE* and still stand to be around afterwards. Sounds cliche but its a hard thing to find in you girls/women. Then go right into a story about how you kicked some chick to the cur b because she tried to get to serious. then say "dont you just hate it when you tell someone your not lookin for serious and they just dont get it?" "I feel sorry for you, i know you probably go through that a lot with all the lame ass chumps out there"

if she can't agree with you on that then raise your standards! (seriously..why not?)

When you put this out there early, they will say "wow this guy knows exactly what he wants" they will either take up the challenge of proving to you that a girl like that does exist or they will decide its not what they want and move on RIGHT AWAY.

either way there is absolutely no room for confusion on what your interested in, shows that you have a lot of choices and wont hesitate to kick her to the curb.

Also when you feel down, get in a gym or do something your are good at to raise your confidence.

anyways, sorry about the rambling, just thought it may help you develop your dating game a little.

Thanks ajmn86, and you're not rambling man.

When I said dating, I meant going out and finding someone I can have
a good time with and hopefully that develops into something.

By the way, she sent me an email this morning, here's the main part,
tell me what you guys think:

it feels like you have expectations I can't meet.There's nothing wrong
with spending a lot of time with each other. It's just not where
I expect to be at this point.
I like you (my name), but you do know I see other people & I expect that
you do the same.
That's all. Take it for what it is.

I never knew she was seeing other people, I mean I know how it is, but she
mentioned on our first date that after her husband passed, she was depressed
for a long time and that she doesn't go out a lot and that she though when we
met (at a friend's birthday and we talked all night) that I was fun to be around, so
she went out with me.

Anyways, again, it's really my fault for not playing the game so to speak, or for
letting my guard down during the Mid game, or for liking her.

Am I supposed to not develop feelings for the girl I'm going out with to be able to keep her? Seriously, I'm asking, I wanna know.

Is the secret to go out with many girls at the same time that way I won't be completely available, then they'll stay with me?

I'm moving on, it's very difficult at the moment though.

Stay with me guys, give me more advice, your posts are of great help, thanks.

Dont develope feelings for anyone, until you know what you are looking for and what you want. Give new relationships time to feel that person out, because there may be underlying traits that really turn you off.

As far as her response, tell her thats fine and that you were under the same impression, and if she likes you can keep it casual. This will send the clear message that you completely understand and don't want anything serious, and it allows you to make her a FB without her feeling like a whore.

_________________
"Once you have achieved perfection, you have achieved failure." - Me

Once again, thanks Deviated.

I did tell her that, but she totally cut me off.

Here's what's shocking to me, and I just remembered this. On our last
date (Friday), she gave me a present, and I though how sweet. We then
had a really good time, or at least I thought we did. We basically kept
telling jokes and laughed a lot.

So this sudden shift in her behaviour, like being extremely dry, and kinda
angry at me, and aggressive towards me (in her tone of voice) is confusing to me.
I actually froze there for a few seconds, and although I understood that she's not
interested in me, I could not understand why she was kinda mean to me. It's like I was talking to a different person.

She could have accepted my frienship offer, and been nice about it. But
immediately after that she goes and kinda blocks me from her Facebook account
by blocking her pictures, and also parts of her page. She left so little in there
like I was gonna stalk her or something.

I don't know if I should send her an email and tell her that that's totally not cool
what she did. Should I ? Or maybe, and who knows she has already changed her
email address too.

It's almost insulting. I'm a good, descent guy. I've never been mean or done anything bad to her. I don't understand how anybody can change like that so fast. Like I said, I kinda knew I srcrewed my game, and was loosing her, but I thought we could still be distant friends and be cool with it.

Funny how things change so fast, from beings the receipiant of presents, to being completely cut off like that.

This just scares me man. I don't think I will be trusting another girl I go out with. Maybe it's a good lesson, I don't know.

On a positive note, this is actually kinda theraputic to post my thoughts and to see that there are people out there who are willing to take the time and offer help.

Can't thank you enough.

You're already getting plenty of attention, but I've been drinking and still a little euphoric after a date, so I'll chime in too. To the point, jonjjon you have done NOTHING wrong. Your game sounds pretty solid, it's rare that I read a post that sounds like the guy knows what he's doing. This is 100% on the girl. She's had a traumatic experience, and she is still messed up, no question. There's two ways you can go about this. Damned if you don't, you can keep building comfort and take things slow (good chance you'll "fix" her and then she'll screw someone else). Or, damned if you do, just throw it all out there, be the PUA you are. She has kino issues, well all kino is different and as long as you don't poke her ribs, you're probably fine and she's just making bs excuses because she's scared of intimacy still. A PUA's time is valuable and it doesn't sound like this girl is really even quality, so I'd recommend the latter option. Also, she's probably looking for someone to get her out of that 5 year rut and help her move on. Kiss close or bust.

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31 and still figuring it out.

Another thing I've learned is that sometimes saying nothing at all is more than enough to get the point across. At this point, if you do say something to her, it's going to make you seem desperate, or worse, you are obsessed with her. Ignore her for a while and post up about how great a time you had with such and such, she will undoubtedly be reading your profile from time to time and seeing how she had NO effect over your happiness.

_________________
"Once you have achieved perfection, you have achieved failure." - Me