FR#51: Direct vs. Indirect, Miss Exotica, and How to Neg a Redhead
2010-02-08 Monday
Joe Shanghai, Three Story Club, B&N
Roster: Alter Ego, Doc, Whisp
3 sets
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I number closed a Chinese girl on the subway a few days ago. Let's call her Cloud. Today, Alter Ego and Doc joined me to meet Cloud, Cloud's parents, and her friend Hua, and Hua's boyfriend at Joe Shanghai for dinner. I use the time to practice mid-game.
On the subway to Astor Place, I mention S'mores to Cloud, but do not tell her exactly what they are. From S'mores, we go to several other topics like Dim Sum, desserts, Hong Kong, then eventually back to S'mores, which she agrees to get with me sometime. I am preparing for seduction at my place here.
Alter Ego, Doc, and I head to the Three Story Club and wait for Whisp. The club is free on Mondays, but we are too early and hardly anyone is there. Next Monday, I will go later, then hit up the Hipster Joint after.
We head to Barnes and Nobles, but it is very late and soon the place closes. Doc and I chat up a girl working the Nook counter. Slowly my banter is improving.
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2010-02-09 Tuesday
Met, B&N near Met, B&N at Union Sq, Masseuse Club
Roster: Alter Ego, Meng, Meng's friend
18 Sets
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The Met is pretty empty. I am feeling super low energy and I'm afraid I infected Alter Ego with it as well. I would like be able to will myself into a higher energy state.
We hit up B&N on 86th, but it is filled with high schoolers. We go to the Union Sq B&N and take turns approaching. While there, we get a caffeine fix to pump our energy.
A brunette 6 is sitting. I sit down next to her. "Hey." I am very low energy and my body language is closed. We chat about what she is reading, about French cooking, and she agrees to cook with me sometime. However, he boyfriend calls and she changes her mind as he walks over from the cafe.
A 7 is sitting with a magazine. I sit next to her and open her with something clever - cannot remember what. She answers and as I start to speak about magazines, she interrupts and asks where I am from. We chat for maybe half an hour about all kinds of things. Half-way in, I go direct on her and say that my opener was really an excuse to talk with her because I thought she was pretty.
I do not think it was necessary to be direct at this point. Discretion would have been fine.
If you approach a girl, there is a reason. Depending on the girl, you can be direct - that is, vocalize you are attracted to the woman - or you can be indirect - that is, suggest you are attracted to the woman through body language and innuendo. Either way, you have to be honest. When you go indirect, you can be ambiguous, but you must still be honest. As to how to judge which approach you take - direct or indirect - that is up to your calibration. I do not know enough to discuss calibration with confidence.
I write about being honest because I feel if we are not honest, our game will have fundamental flaws. There have been many instances where I was not honest - I was gamey. Instead of feeling love/horniness for the woman in front of me, I was thinking about how to game her successfully. Instead of pursuing my desire, I was seeking validation - tight game, sexy one-liners, quick-witted comebacks. By being honest, I mean feel the desire right down in your balls and use that - not your desire for good game - to inspire you.
Towards the middle of the set, I finally introduce myself to her. I present my hand and she does not take it. "I cannot touch you because of my religion." She is an Orthodox Jewish Israeli. I am tempted to eject, but she is very cute, she is in New York for some time, and she seeks rapport every time I vacuum - that is, every time I stop talking. Also, in the middle of the set, she invites me to Israel. "I would love to go, but I do not know anyone there."
"You know me! Let me know when you come."
"All right then. I will tell you when I come, but how will I contact you?" She gives me her Facebook. I stay in set for a bit more. She is a cool girl, sexy, and I would not mind sleeping with her. She can tell her grandchildren about her adventures in America and the forbidden passion she shared with a strange man of mixed blood and mixed religion.
Later that night on FB, I send her an adaptation of a text on Graphyte's blog:
Those beautiful eyes, those sexy lips, the smoothest of walks...but enough about me. How are you doing? (credit: JT ABCs)
We'll see what she says.
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On the way out, I see this girl who looks Black, but has light skin and an Asian look to her. I go direct. "Hey, I was just about to leave, but I saw you and had to talk with you. You look very exotic, and I'm sure you get this all the time, but where are you from?" She replies that as of recently, she has stopped answering that question.
I tell her that I have the same experience with my Chinese name. She asks what it is and what it means. When I tell her - it's something philosophical about how one pursues one's dreams - she starts talking about the things in her life.
We talk about the book that is in her hand - some motivational, self-improvement stuff - and I tell her about how one motivational speaker (Tim from RSD) has similar principles. I express interest in learning about what she does. Rufio always tells me that building rapport is less about "being interesting" than about "being interested" in what you do and what others do.
She invites me out to dinner and to a party she wants to throw. I tease her about not dating random strangers I meet and she of course denies that she wants a date with me, which is good; she just wants dinner! Dating is AFC stuff, so I prefer to reframe the situation as "hanging out" or "just talking."
I ask how I can contact her and she gives me her e-mail. I send her the same message I sent the Israeli girl. She replies right away:
A sense of humor is paramount, welcome aboard!
Just getting back home, about to get to work on my project?
What's shaking in your world?
This morning, I e-mailed her about about last night. He was obviously gay, but if I had blown him out or avoided him, I would have missed an interesting and educational interaction - regarding both Pick Up and Mathematics:
This man I met last night really threw me for a loop. If I was not such a sexy beast, I don't think he would have been so open with me. Is it bad of my to sexualize myself for information? lol
He studied in my department at my uni, but is now at Columbia doing research. I can't explain what he said - I do not understand it well enough to repeat it - but it was very mystical, almost spiritual. You won't believe what we study.
Exotica calls me twenty minutes later. "I just have to know what you study!"
"I don't answer that question. If I studied finance and you were a gold digger, you may like me for my money, but you may not love me. If I was an astronaut, you may think what I do is awesome, but I may be an angry drunk and we'd have a tough marriage. What I do is not who I am - it will have very little to do with how our personalities click. It's one of those interview questions that I get over and over again, but just don't feel like answering."
"Oh my god, I hope you know I was not offended when you asked me where I am from last night. That was actually a cool question - most people ask my ethnicity." [This is when I know I've got her. She is going out of her way to seek rapport - there is nothing cool about the question "Where are you from?"]
From there, we talk about random stuff for half an hour. She mentions what she would like her ideal guy to be like mildly kinky. "Now I know what you like." She purrs then continues about how she does not want to be judged by people. "Yeah, who knows what kinky fetishes I may have, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. We can talk about that stuff later."
"I look forward to it," she says.
The conversation goes on and she continues to seek rapport, asking what it is I do. I do not tell her - I say she will find out eventually. I anticipate that this may turn her off from me - that she may wonder if I am trying to avoid being honest. "You know, I could just be really creepy and be avoiding telling you what I do. Maybe I'm afraid it will sketch you the hell out." She tells me she wouldn't mind being sketched out. lol
She goes on to tell me that what really sketches her out is how a psychiatrist friend tried to make her into a case study and write about her. If only she knew what I am doing. I tell her not to worry - that I am not a psychiatrist, and we talk about how psychologists are cooler.
She tells me she had wanted to set up dinner with this call, but that's not how I want to end the conversation. I want to break things off on a good note with no neediness, no seeking value, no going for a date - plus, I need to get going anyway. She starts to tell me she has to go though, so I quickly say that I need to get back to my reading and we say good-bye.
Later, I feel bad about telling her that I will not use her for a case study, so I e-mail her:
I'm about to grab an early dinner with some friends. You're a strange girl - I may just have to use you for a case study.
Ideally, every person we read about or get to know well becomes a case study. We learn from the people we spend time with, so there is no way to get around the idea of becoming someone's case study.
Lessons:
>If you make your comments artsy, creative, spiritual, metaphysical, or philosophical in a very open-ended way, a girl will be more likely to respond. It worked with the Israeli girl, this exotic girl, and a French girl from later that night. Women are into these topics - they are emotional, passionate, opinionated, mysterious.
I also am beginning to enjoy these topics. I find them more colorful than the dry discourse that often goes on between men.
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Later, I meet up with Meng and his friend at the Masseuse Club. They are downstairs and already in-set. I am feeling incredibly sluggish - maybe I am crashing after the double shot of espresso.
I join them and chat up the redhead who is an 8 for me - super hot, gorgeous eyes. I cannot get through her bitch shield though. Meng is a great conversationalist, though, and throughout the rest of the night, he tries several things. Meng is a newb to PU, but to me he feels like a natural. He admits he has no problem with women - he just wants to be more precise.
I open several sets, have a lot of good conversation practice, and learn something very important from how Meng talks about the redhead afterward.
I had one number close that went sort of like this:
The girl was French - so i spoke a little French to her. I told her about how terrible my French is even though it used to be good, to which I thought she could relate to. Many French learn Spanish. It is pretty easy for them because Spanish is so similar to French. Sure enough, she used to speak Spanish very well, but does not anymore.
I go on to talk about one photography and fashion show I went to a few weeks back. She gets excited and asks me how she can find things like that. I tell her about the Soho Social Lounge and ask her how I can contact her with information. I number close her, then finally ask for her name.
Later, one of the sets I opened earlier has grown. I enter only to find Meng back in that set as well. I introduce myself to one of the guys, and when I tell him what I study, he introduces me to a tall Black guy who is getting his PhD or Masters in the same field and who also had studied at my university. He is checking me out as I talk with him, giving me intense eye contact, and a lot of kino. I don't mind though because I do it to women all the time even if they are not interested.
We have an incredible conversation. I am taking a year off and am considering taking another one, but this guy really makes me miss my school.
Later, I go back to the set with the redhead. The redhead went for a cigarette with Meng and so the redhead's friend was left alone on the couch. I start bantering with her - by now, I am feeling more playful. After five minutes, I back away and say, "That's it!" She thinks she offended me, but I stand up, grab her hand, and we start grinding on the dance floor.
She is digging it and I almost go for a make out, but I'm not really into her - she's a little squishy. Instead, I stick my leg to her crotch. After not kissing her, I think she is snapping back to reality because she does not grind her crotch against my leg. "I have a boyfriend and a son," she blurts out. We sit back down and she lets me put her arm around her. The redhead comes back and I roll off. Soon after, I leave.
I see Meng outside. He tells me he spent the rest of the evening negging the redhead, which apparently destroyed her bitch shield. She tries to number close Meng, but says he does not give his number to girls. She says the same thing back to him. He leaves, but I tell him to go back in and try again. He later calls me saying that she tried to get his Facebook. He refused and she eventually gave him her number. I am a little surprised that he did not try to full close her. He is sure that she will not flake. I hope he's right.
Lessons:
>When talking with a girl, randomly grab the bicep and squeeze, and pull slightly. Thank you gay Black man.
>Many PUAs recently have told me they do not neg. Some of these PUAs are really good. I do not understand how they get the really hot or really bitchy girls without negs.
The concept of DHVs and negging goes back to Mystery's view of making the PUA's value higher than the woman's. Some PUAs say that this mindset is incorrect - a PUA intrinsically is higher value. Value, however, is perceived, and what others perceive is only partly in our control.
Methods of changing value:
-Social Proof
-Fashion
-Carriage
-Vocal and Body Language
-Verbal DHVs (stories and gambits)
-Negs
Sometimes, we cannot get social proof because the girl cannot see us in social interactions - either she is looking elsewhere, the venue is too empty to open other sets, or the venue is so full the girl cannot see what we are doing.
Sometimes, our fashion does not appeal to a girl or our fashion just sucks.
Sometimes, carriage, vocal language, and body language may be too subtle if the girl is already closed off. Also, these aspects are difficult to improve and take time.
DHV stories are sometimes inappropriate for the moment or can come off as try hard. They have to flow naturally in the conversation.
If there is little conversation, however, and the above factors cannot get the girl's attention enough, throwing negs surely might. Hurling an observation at a person is a one-sided technique. If a girl has already decided that she is higher value than you, the easiest and most direct way to bring her to your level is to challenge her perceived value - in other words, throw a neg or a few at her.
I would, however, really like to know how some of the really good PUAs operate without negs. I would guess they have all the other factors (Social Proof, Fashion, etc.) so tight that using negs would be overkill - an unnecessary push when the pulls are already so strong.
Lastly, I am glad to see my conversation skills improving a little. It did not feel like it at the Masseuse Club, but that's fine. Two steps forward, one step back.
CHAT
