Hey guys,

I've been debating about which martial art form to take up. Need something to appease myself that I too can defend myself.

I've looked into Wing Tsun sounds great the only issue is that I've heard that it takes forever to master. Muay Thai seems like a good alternative. Which one takes less time so as to be usable in real life?

What do you guys think?

Those arts are pretty good wing tsun is more art than muay thai, if I had to choose between just those two I'd say Muay Thai its more practical.

But If I may suggest a few alternatives

-Krav Maga

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbnhUCvlGUU


-brazilian jiu jitsu

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... iques&aq=1

-jeet kune do


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ues&aq=1--


-a MMA inspired class

Ive studied all these techniques in some way read books and sparred with friends who have backgrounds in most of these arts.

If I had to choose just one of these from my list it would be Krav Maga fuck you learn how to disable someone with a hand grenade, mix that with some BJJ (brazilian jiu jitsu) youll have it all coverd.

Id say If you can go with Krav Maga

Not sure what country your from but the DVD's are available from netflix and they have a free trial

http://www.netflix.com/Search?v1=krav+maga

also this is by far the best book on krav maga
http://www.amazon.com/Krav-Maga-Yoursel ... 112&sr=8-8


EDIT- Let me also add that instructors and studio/dojo are in business, they need you to contiune to come to make money, they may look to stunt your growth/maturation process. The good thing about Krav Maga is it can be learned fast and its relativly easy to learn but the studios as far as I can tell are little more than fitness centers with a slow learning curve, if you can find a like minded friend ans spar together just be careful not to hurt yourself.

Before you join a class, make sure you follow its origins. A lot of disciples are jokes, especially Krav Maga. Most (I'd say bout 60% or so of the ones I've found) are Paper Back masters (Ie the learned from a book, not a real class; or they were trained at seminars) and have no real understanding of the movements.

This goes with all styles though, even more so with Jui Jutsu and MMA *anything*, so before you join a gym look at its history and roots, then assess whether it's applicable to the real world situations you are looking to handle.

60% sounds like a 100% made up number.

As far a Krav Maga if your instructor wasn't in some branch of the IDF I would be suspicious, if they haven't spent anytime in Israel I would be sure hes not worth the money.

You can learn from a book, if you have at least one othewr person to train with and some good safety equipment for full on sparring.

Well considering Ive looked at 10 studios and 6 of them were shadey, I'd say you're full of shit and need to stop attempting to be a prick. Especially since in order to be a legit instructor of some status you *need* to have served in the IDF, or have a direct line to them; both of which is extremely rare over here in the US, or anywhere else from what I've seen. Anything else is just watered down and misses a lot of the key details as to how and why something works, and when to use them. The average person (not in a Warzone) is never going to need to know how to disarm a grenade (which is a bs false claim) while its still in someones hand. Krav Maga is good for H2H CQB and disarming people with knives or, if you're lucky to be quick enough and close enough to disarm someone with a firearm.

It's other strong points are it's pure simplicity in ending a fight as quick as possible. There are no "brawls" in Krav Maga, the idea is to end the confrontation as fast and efficient as you can.

The best school near me actually has a direct line to Grandmaster Haim Gidon (IKMA President), who was taught by Founder Imi (Emerich) Lichtenfeld (1910-1998), and most of the upper echelon of the organization comes over every 3-6 months to do training and make sure things are up to standards.

Basically what my point was, if you want to learn the actual disciple, the Instructor will have volunteered his history, and his line of predecessors that show authenticity.


Edit: If you really think you can learn how to fight/defend yourself from a book I hope you never have to see if you've learned anything. Reading does NOT compensate or make up for experience in any sense. You can read all the books on combat you want, but if you face someone with real experience, not even training, just experience vs. your book smarts, you're going to get the shit kicked into the back of your skull.

so you're pursuing Wing Chun cuz you've watched IpMan?
hahaha that movie made me kung fu all the way home!

As far as WingTsun is concerned, its an excellent foundation builder for what I call "Top Rocking." Works great to properly teach you how to throw quick, powerful punches with as little movement (telegraphing) as possible. It also teaches you through heavy and intensive training to build your reflex speed and to adapt/improvise.

Wing Chung on the other hand is just as good, but its more structured, and less fluid when I have seen it practiced (implemented is a different story, still just as effective.)

If I was you, and you're doing this for defensive purposes, look up different groups in your area on Meetup. com for different disciplines, the ones I've personally found to work for me are listed, but you need to consider your body type and experience. My BT is short/athletic/quick/powerful (I'm 5'7" @167lbs with extremely quick reflexes and I have a lift to weight average ratio of 1.685 (average man is about .7) with a lot of RL experience) and you also have to consider your personality. Some more peaceful, calm, flowing personalities would do better in Aikido, where as the more ruthless personalities would do better in Ninjutsu, Muay Thai, ect.

Focused Styles for my Body type and Personality:
- Ninjutsu (Re-direction, body mechanics, proper strike foundation)
- Wu-Shu Southern Fist (with Chinese "Street Fighting" influence) (Flow, speed, and explosive power, mostly upper body based)
- Krav Maga (quick and ruthless, simple in its practice but deadly effective)
- Greco-Roman Wrestling (foundation for ground fighting)
- Kick-Boxing (good for learning power strikes, and target focus)
- Ju-Jutsu (Still looking for a good Brazilian school) (body mechanics, locks, breaks, and adversary control)
- MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts, implements a lot of Jujutsu, Systema, Kravmaga, Muay Thai, and Boxing among a whole list of others) (All around one of the best disciplines, as it teaches you how to fight in any environment, and in full gear. Not applicable but so far it has had the best mix of everything. I would seek this out if possible after a few years of foundation building.)

Some experience in these styles:
- Hapkido (Combo of Joint locks and Korean Strike Fighting)
- Tang Soo Do (Didn't really like this one, to stop and go, excellent for larger, slow fighters who don't like to jump around)
- Aikido (circular movements, excellent for re-direction)
- Wu-Shu Northern (mostly kick based, what you would see in most kung fu movies or demo groups)
- Systema (would do this a LOT more but its damn near impossible in this area)(ruthless, works with a combo of GR Wrestling and JuJutsu, lots of crazy conditioning, Samba has some of its roots here)
- Capoeira (I tried this, and learned a lot about flow, but I am not nearly flexible enough. It is a GREAT basics teacher for Parry and re-direction)
- Bagua (Wushu lineage, Palm strike based, Kinda looks like a more brutal TaiChiChuan, works great with Aikido)

The most effective styles when combined IMO:
- Krav Maga
- Systema
- Ninjutsu
- Brazilian Jujutsu
- Samba
- Kickboxing
- MCMAP
- Multi-Discipline MMA (examine their reputation and record)

Best Stand Alone:
- Systema
- MMA
- MCMAP
- Samba
- Ninjutsu

A few notes:
- Ninjutsu is exceeding difficult to find a legit teacher. Ask to see his lineage and if he doesn't mention scrolls avoid him. This is an excellent style that allows you to manipulate anything to your advantage, and JuJutsu is a sub-discipline that derives from it.

-Muay Thai is avoided by me because of how much damage it is capable of, both to your enemy and specifically yourself. I could care less about my target, but most people who train for real in this sport have severe back, hip, and knee problems before they are 50.

- It should be noted that there is no "best style" in martial arts, and it doesn't matter what your rank is in the Western Culture. We pay to test and pass. If we pass, great, here is your belt. Unless you go directly to the source, IE and Shaolin Temple, belts don't mean a damn thing. In the western Culture its not the style or the rank, its the fighter and his endurance, experience, and raw skill that makes you a great fighter. All the training and belts in the world are meaningless if you can't implement them properly.

- The stand alone styles are there because they focus on ground fighting and strike fighting, as opposed to being more leaning in one direction or the other like Krav Maga with Strike Fighting or JuJutsu with grappling. Both styles have some of each in them, but not nearly enough focus for my liking.

Muay Thai

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Natural supreme

Muay thai is cool man, I trained for 2 years and was good at it
My former highschool teacher trained wing tsun for like 10 years, I once sparred with him and he kicked my ass

I would say go out to a gym and try both.. pick whatever suits you the best.

I've done Muay Thai for 2 years.

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True communication is communion―the realization of oneness, which is love! ~ Eckhart Tolle

Learn Muay-Thai.

I've been doing a Muay-Thai/MMA class for almost a month now and I love it. Totally empowers me and i'm still a complete noob.

But,

My gf's brother at a party the other night kept antagonizing me( we were both drunk off tequila), and eventually I told him i'd pseduo grapple with him. I was on him so quickly he tapped before we even began. lol

I can probably help with this, seeing as I do Ving Tsun...

Ving Tsun/Wing Chun/Wing Tsun/Weng Chun is just the romanised translation of the phrase 'forever/beautiful/praise springtime' in Cantonese. The spelling is irrelavent

To a degree...

In the western world the spelling will almost certainly denote a particular 'brand' or lineage but If you are in the UK and want to know about wing chun then hit me up on the pm, as there is a LOT of politics involved in peoples opinion, but DO get in touch as it's a great art form and under the RIGHT instructor you can flourish.

I spar regularly with a lot of muay Thai guys who train at my Bjj gym, and it's a good art form too, but I still train wing chun so make of that what you will... Althought mt will be better if you are looking from a fitness point of view or a quick fix point of view. Wing chun takes dedication.

Bjj was another good example raised, you will end up training with the toughest sob's you're ever likely to meet!

But for serious questions and answers take it to the pm's!

I can probably help with this, seeing as I do Ving Tsun...

Ving Tsun/Wing Chun/Wing Tsun/Weng Chun is just the romanised translation of the phrase 'forever/beautiful/praise springtime' in Cantonese. The spelling is irrelavent

To a degree...

In the western world the spelling will almost certainly denote a particular 'brand' or lineage but If you are in the UK and want to know about wing chun then hit me up on the pm, as there is a LOT of politics involved in peoples opinion, but DO get in touch as it's a great art form and under the RIGHT instructor you can flourish.

I spar regularly with a lot of muay Thai guys who train at my Bjj gym, and it's a good art form too, but I still train wing chun so make of that what you will... Althought mt will be better if you are looking from a fitness point of view or a quick fix point of view. Wing chun takes dedication.

Bjj was another good example raised, you will end up training with the toughest sob's you're ever likely to meet!

But for serious questions and answers take it to the pm's!

i haven,t read trough all reply,s but

i,d go for wing chun
it is better for close combat
mostly hands and effective kicks

sadly i don,t have any good martial arts schools in my area
only karate and judo

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I have just found out about this system.
And it quite intrigued when i read about it

I see you're from holland why aren't you doing muay thai, you have the best MT schools in the world