go for the k-close before the number close? what do u guys do?

anyways, my 2 sticking point right now is:
the kiss close - not worried about this yet. i think my kino escalation will work that part out.
getting the target to want me to call her - this is the one that worries me the most. i'm thinking K-close will help build the comfort and alleviate this problem a little.



any ideas, guys?



---

ill spare u the boring details, but i've just gotten back in the game after a 6 year relationship. never kept my game sharp and so now i have to relearn everything. i'm slept with over 60 women, (while not being aware of this community) so i think i have at least some amount of natural in me.

so my learning curve, seems to be pretty rapid. only go out on weekends, and sometimes only a couple hours (or less) a night, because my wing can't get his act right. (his sticking point is picking a damn outfit!)

but each weekend, i make goals, and i've seemed to meet them. but now here's the thing. i've been getting phone numbers (and one email). i can't seem to get them to NOT flake on picking up, or calling me back. i running a decent routine the night of, and my kino game is still drum tight (not being braggert, but thankfully, that part of my game stuck with me throughout the past 6 years). so i wanna get past this. i can't help but feel like i'm coming off as too smooth, or too rehearsed. not rehearsed like i'm spitting canned shit (i am), but i have good communication skills to have it come off as natural talk. so, i'm gonna just keep trying, maybe add more isolation time and try and build rapport. so difficult in a club, where there is so much distraction adn things going on, that any lapse in conversation will grab the targets attention. uuugh...

i don't want to be a robot just doing routine after routine. i think my lack of use of my natural game or comfort building, is hurting my number. but i can't deny, the routines is keeping their interest in me at the time of. such a delicate balance. whats weird is i almost feel the routines are anti-comfort building. like a target this past weekend asked me (i number closed her easily and made her call herself and leave a message telling her how much fun she was having), "if u just got out of a relationship, why are u so smooth?"

i replied with a hurt/surprised look, "what u call 'being smooth' i just call being honest with my emotions...blah blah blah" it worked great...but i called once already....no pick up.

PS: i'm making a spreadsheet and tracking girls, i've number closed, and when i call. iono...hoping once i turn this into a numbers game, i can see my success rate go up. who knows. i'll try anything.

_________________
have u ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?

Kiss close, number close. I generally don't keep track of what I do first. It depends on logistics.

Kiss closing is just recognizing when you have enough attraction to shift the interaction sexual. A combination of things really come into play to get a kiss close with a stranger. Kino helps, but any reason to talk about sexual topics is a huge plus. When you talk about anything sexual, and you already have attraction it makes it easier to shift to a kiss close. I like to set sexual frames- like they're adventurous- they don't care what people think- they don't get cock blocked. (Sexual framing credited to Sinn and Captain Jack.) There's a lot of sexual frames that progressively get more and more sexual- in which makes it so much easier to get a girl to become physical with you.

I'd highly recommend checking out Sinn.

If I can't escalate past a certain point due to reasons like she's leaving I'll go for the number.

Here a few few things I do to prevent flaky phone numbers. They're working for me- maybe they'll work for you.

First: I like to find a commonality and then seed an upcoming event which would call for a number exchange. I find this works a lot better than saying, "Hey, let's hang out." That comes off as typical, and boring. When you have a common interest, I.E. liking good sushi- it gives the woman a reason to want to follow through. It makes them invest a more.

Second: Qualify the girl. You have to give the girl a reason why you like her. When you're trying to call her, and you haven't qualified her, or gave her the opportunity to give you reasons on why you like her besides her physical appeal- she's going to think "Um, I don't really know this guy. Why is he calling me? Oh, yeah- he's trying to fuck me." When you qualify a girl- she'll give you reasons why you like her. She'll think when you're calling, "Oh yeah, this guy likes me because I'm studying this, and I am passionate about this."

Third: After I get the number, and we part ways for the night I text her that night to make sure I'm on her radar.Something like, "Sweet dreams." or, "Hope you got home safe." Anything to make sure she remembers you.

I don't believe in this wait a few days to initiate contact again because it'll seem high value is bullshit. Girls get approached all the time. If she gives her number out five times a week that's five guys you're competing against. You need to ping her and be on her radar. A low investment text message works very well.

Hope that works.

Riott, thanks for the response. excellent points! i'm gonna make a conscious effort to find a commonality. i think that would great for natural banter which would get rid of some time that i would otherwise be running canned routines.

on ur second point, i would like some advice. i would also like to be more conscious about the qualifying. i'm thinking ur spot on that this would help eliminating flaking by creating higher value (i'm the prize). i like to ask, "do you cook?" this gets them qualifying. however i do it with much playfulness and it keeps them laughing oh we can get married now...but i'll just divorce u t2 weeks later and talk half of ur stuff).

do u guys qualify in a more serious tone. my game is really playful, especially when just opening group sets. i think i'll also make a conscious effort to get the frame more sexual in isolation. (drop the funny down a notch?) what do u guys think.

btw, thanks for all the advice, guys!

EDIT: also riott, when u say check out Sinn's game, where exactly do u mean? do u have a link by any chace, or do u mean on youtube?

_________________
have u ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?

I don't do # closes or kcloses at all. Both are a HUGE waste of time. Get into a sexual state, just make fluff talk and make an excuse to go to your place or ehrs. "Kclose' and flcose her there. Besides, if you want her as a gf, she'll rationalize "it was meant to be, I couldn't make him wait" and chase you. Get phone #'s only after they proved to be good in bed.

stanley if every approach can turn into a f-close right away, then more than half of the threads wouldn't be here.

_________________
i am god, if you dont like it, then do something about it.

i think u should go to bars over clubs if u want to have a conversation (then n-close, k-close, or f-close), but grinding and k-closes work a lot better in clubs(0 conversation needed, too loud to talk anyways, maybe a name exchange or 1 compliment, or u can remain silent ).

_________________
i am god, if you dont like it, then do something about it.

Qualification is great. I feel like it's one of the more powerful things you can do, and it is so multifaceted. It doesn't have to be a question, but it can also be a statement.
I.E. Are you adventurous? - I bet your the most adventurous person out of your friends.

I'll copy and paste something I wrote a while back- that covers some basics of qualification that might make it easier to apply. As far as tone- it's really up to you.
The way I deliver qualification statements is in the form of Bait-Hook-Reel-Release-Rapport

The question, or statement is the bait-
Example: "You seem like the most adventurous people in your group."

The hook is her answer-Yes

The reel is giving her an IOI by giving her little compliment by telling her why you like it.
Example "Oh, I love adventurous people.

The release- The release is not always needed. It's used for when the girl is getting a little uncomfortable with the fact you're hitting on her.
Example: "You probably say that to everyone."
You'd release with a small neg, something situational relevant. "I don't know about you- you're probably only PG adventurous." Something to not make it so awkward.

Rapport- You ask a rapport question about the characteristic.
Example "What's the most adventurous thing you've done in the last month. "
This makes it seem like you're really interested in what she had to say- not just seeing if she's adventurous as a slut.

==========
I use qualification hoops as my oh shit button. If I don't know where I'm at with a girl, I use qualification or movement to see what kind of attraction I have with a girl. I'd usually start off with a small qualification hoop like, and move up to medium hoops and then larger hoops to build some momentum. If she says yes to all your small and medium hoops, then chances are she will say yes to the large hoop you give her.


Small Hoops- are positive female stereotypes that any women would want to be seen as. Things like,
Are you adventurous- are you spontaneous, are you a good friend.
Low investment, chances are she will say yes and you can build momentum from there.

Medium Hoops- What do you wanna be when you grow up? What do you do for fun? What are you passionate about.
Questions that take a little more investment- a little more time to answer.

Large Hoop- Blatantly qualifying questions-
Why are you special? What do you have going on besides your looks? Why do I want to get to know you?

Great for giving a girl a reason to why you like her. I use them to see where I am in the interaction. If a girl will not qualify a medium hoop- then I go back to attraction and bring up another medium hoop later. If you get a girl to jump through two small hoops, two medium hoops when you get to that large hoop she's already invested in the interaction and doesn't wanna lose that.

Once she jumps through that large hoop I find going sexual to be much easier.

=-========
Learned and applied this theory from Sinn.

I'd highly recommend his blog, and whatever other material he has. The guy is out of control, and I found that once applying his insights and theory that my game skyrocketed.

Riott - Thanks for the post, bro. It was written, i'm gonna write down some bait, hook, reel, release, rapport examples down. i just discovered this week's assignment! i could see this helping in the comfort/rapport game that i feel i'm lacking in

anyways, i'm kinda new to this site. u've talked about sinn's style and his blog a couple times. where do i find it?

UPDATE to said HB in original post: she picked up on the second call last thursday. she remembered me. it was her b-day. told her she was lucky for getting a call from me on her b-day. shot the shit with her for maybe 5 minutes. told her i would be out of town and we should meet up next week sometime. she agreed. but still, feel like flaking is 50/50. we'll find out.

_________________
have u ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?