It seems that lately a lot of people(ALOT!!) believe that natural game will take over the traditional forms of pickup like Mystery method and Gunwitch method (speed seduction is probably something that will be long gone by then, well in their world anyway).
bacially Natural game is beliefs that you internalize and some inner game concepts just without outer game.
Where as the traditonal method is based a lot on outer game and some on inner game.
Now look some of the most important things in pickup are not adopted by natural game experts(mainly The Approach guys they pretty much "invented" natural game), tecniques and skills like Frame control and Prizablitily are not believed by those who go natural.
So basically in the traditional form of pickup (that means Mystery method and Gunwitch and just about everything else i can group in this category) are pretty much lines, prizability, and frame control.
Where as Natural game is no lines, no prizablitily, no frame control.
Now i have read all the natural game articles just to see if there's anything good there and guess what....there isn't!!
How many of you guys started by using traditional(a lot of you guys) and how many of you started by using natural (probably a few), like honestly people Natural game seems nice i mean its claims that you just vibe and flow your game...but though it does work (after a while) its really just cocky funny and a few inner game concepts.
If you do Mystery method you know as well as I that these are a lot more effective.
Trust me i studied both Traditional and Natural game and in the end of the day Traditional pickup is just plain better than Natural.

For all you newbies, rAFCs, and beginners i reccommend learning as much Traditional game as you can like Mystery method Speed seduction Juggler and even Gunwitch.


-----Jaxin

I don't like how you say Natural game is less effective. For those of us who have natural game or some sort of it, it is alot better then any method. I tried to incorporate types of game into my life and it did not work as well. It is only when I actually went back into my natural self where I felt comfortable and incorporated some lines, and routines into my only natural game that I finally felt comfortable. I see where you are coming from, but I do not agree with your conclusion about how Natural game is not as effective as a Method type of game. My conculsion is how you portray yourself and how well you know your game... natural or method type.

Shaft i'm pretty sure you haven't internalized something like Mystery Method.
Once you use one method for about 2 or 3 months 4 nights every week or so for 2-3 hours, then tell me how you feel about methods.
The problem with most people is that they don't take enough time to get into a method. Instead newbies and beginners tend to go the easy approach and learn a few concepts and turn to natural game, or for those natural guys they already have all the beliefs so they don't have to do much to learn a few here or there.

Look there's nothing wrong with natural game and i'm not saying it doesn't work, but seriously though stop being lazy and do some work.



----P.S.-Oh and shaft that wasn't directed at you it was more directed to most of the natural game users out there.




----Jaxin

Well I love my natural game. I am not gonna attack you either for what you said so don't worry. But am am not lazy, I have read the Venisian Arts... it was long winded but it did help me understand the game... I read Double your Dating and alot of Davids work. I have read alil of Jugglers and Tylers. Even Body Language books. But for me I like to incorporate my natural abilities with some routines and ideas from all of it to help improve my own abilities. I get what your saying in most people who are new wanna get quick results but you shouldn't deny Natrual ability is also apart of a Method.... infact I believe you can actually learn how to bring out your own Natural Method..

Sorry jaxin but i agree wit shaft on this one
tight natural game i think is amazing becuase
its not a act theres no routines its just you

when i run game all i run is a iproved verson
of my own natural game its just relly relly easy
and it feels good ill use a opener sometimes
and maybe toss the ocasional neg but it just

flows alot better if you have natrual game other wise
if yur a natural and you convert completly over to
traditional methods its like taking huge steps
bak in how far youve already come with your skills

_________________
Gogo

try internalizing pickup why don't ya, come on man, the way i see it Natural game is pretty much just unstructured game.
Things come better with order if we qaliified her before getting her attracted that wouldn't quite make sense now would it.
Look there are a few of you that know how to use Natural game properly and do some decent pickup but most of the guys at the forums are guys that are just starting out, they need structure, not a bunch of inner game concepts and beliefs with few techniques.
An REAL PUA might feel quite comfortable with natural game but rAFC and newbies just don't have enough internalized beliefs or even enough experience for that matter.
So Beginners go ahead and learn Traditional pickup first.
Just remember you have to fake it till you make it.

you knew this was coming

i think you have the wrong impression on natural game....

the thing is that it's natural because you don't have lines already in youre head.
the lines come up right on the spot, and they are original!

i neg, but with things i see from the girl on the spot.
examples. a HB turned to me from the bar and i saw that she had big hair and i actually felt like wow! this girl has some big hair and i said "WOW! you have some big hair!" and this is what i opened with.(she started qualifying right away, i was in A3 after one sentence) another chick i realized she talked a little funny and i busted on her for it "man, you really talk like arnold shwarzenegger (you get the idea), can you stop that??!". (arnold was the first one i came up with). she cracked up pretty hard. one girl was infront of a guy and he asked her to move so he could walk through and i just stood there and said "yeah man, can you get lost! youre just in the way of everybody" she came on to me hard we started wrestling right there she was all angry, but couldnt hold back the smile. (she was a 10) and after a while i just walked away in the middle of her sentence. and she started chasing me.
i said these things these times but don't plan on using them again.

i qualify them in a sense that if she doesnt say anything intresting or nice about herself, i next her. and if she has something nice to offer me i say about it: "that's cool" or whateva to make her know that i liked it.
i screen them for what i like... let's say at that point i want an spontaneous girl i might go like "shit, let's do something fun" and just pick her up on the table and start dancing or do something fun. if she's up for it then i'll know she's spontaneous... i've made girls steal me stuff. i've made them do lap dances. whatever you like
i tell them later that i really liked that she was this and that. and if she wasn't up for it, i next her or say that youre boring and walk away.
my newest will be to see if the girl does what she feels not what she thinks. that's what i'm going for right now

the thing with me is that i might talk to a chick for sec and just out of the blue walk away and go talk to others. i think this gives me prizability and it shows i'm unneedy. but this is just something i do, i don't know why, but i just do it for some reason. they usually just stand there going like what the fuck?! where's he going?? i usually ignore theyre hook. come back later to talk with em more.

i try to open nearly everybody up at the club or the guys atleast i have time to meet and the ones i'm having fun with i'll stick with them until they get boring and just walk away and open some other dudes.

when you really don't feel that anybodys a threat and you can be the loudest and most entertaining guy and you can say the last funny sentence. you have the frame. i don't think about frames i just try to be the most fun guy there for everyone.

i use the M3 module, but if i feel i don't need a part of it i skip it. for the party girls i just might stick to attraction the whole night until the lay, or what ever the fuck i feel needs to be done.

the shy or closed up girls i run more rapport with.

and you'll get to know what needs to be done when you go out there and game alot. why do something you don't need??

if the newbs go out like you said and approach girls constantly they'll get good at this thing in 3 months, well not good, better.

i just feel really strongly about natural game because, i think soon MM is gonna be so known that chicks will know that shit. and they'll dodge it like neo does bullets.

look dude the way i see it from what you told me your game is pretty unstructured and unorganized.
Though it has the potential it doesn't quite do it ya know.
The only thing thats going for you right now is your confidence and inner game you put a structure and outer game with that and you'll be fucking anything that moves man.

Confidence and inner game are the first things that should be worked on though.... if you go in with a structure and outer game with no confidence you will have a hard time actually picking up a girl because of your low confidence and no inner game. With confidence and inner game you can do anything. Nobody said that new people into the communtiy didnt need some struture. But the structur that you need to first work on before you even think about going out and Picking up girls in your inner self man. Confidence is sexy and if you are faking your confidence it shows.

You got to fake it till you make it.
Plain and simple, after a few sarges successful or not we all feel more comfortable and even confident.
You need to start out with confidence because gaining confidence is easy.
Inner game isn't too hard either, Style says you should work on your inner game after your outer game, and i agree.
Inner game and confidence comes with success, granted it wouldn't be so bad if you learned some inner game concepts and beliefs first, but Mystery method and them have the whole Prizability bit, after a little success you really start feeling it.
In the end though i still find its better to start with outer game instead of inner game.

Jaxin we could argue about this topic forever... so I will settle it at this...

Natural Game and Traditional Game are both equally useful and succussful, it all depends on the PUA and what he feels he is the best with. If he is a Godsend with Natural game and prefers that, then so be it he can use that. Or vice versa. You shouldn't say one method, or style of game is better then the other because everyone has there own opinion and the right to decide what they wanna use. Saying one is better then the other or you need this before that is wrong in this communtiy because everything is equaly as important. CASE CLOSED