First hello everybody, second my english isn't that good. I'm from the Netherlands.

ok so ive got this problem,
i'm kinda inlove with a girl, she's about a 9. And a realy hard nut to crack!!

I know her about a year now, she was in my introduction group when i entered the university.

i feel like i had a chance while in a college party during the introduction. She kinda danced against me, but i wanted to take it slow then. Becouse 5 of her friends where around and i didn't want to get between them.

Ok so there are 5 girls, the first one J. i know her from my high school (about 3 years now). The other 4 i know just from the beginning of this year, from the introduction week.

Ok so, at first my target E. and a girlfriend of her S. thought i was going afther this girl A. Also a frend of my target. They confronted me with that and i told them no, she is just a realy good friend (witch she is, she is realy cool!! could be a nice winggirl!).
A few weeks afther the introduction, i went out with the 5 girls to a bar, and this girlfriend of my target, S. asked me what i would to if she would kiss me right there.
What i said then was realy BAD!! "What's in it for me?" (ouch!!)
But i said it becouse i didn't want to kiss her infront of my target girl.
We are still realy good friends, i think she might still have feelings for me though.

About my relation ship with my target. I feel like she is holding back, I am realy good friends with the 4 other girls of her "pack". They all like me very much. I even had dinner with them all twice now.

However my target girl is still a bit distant, i teksted her a few times (didn't get any replies, or just 1)
The same thing happens on MSN, i talk almost no response. But occasionally i break through, and we talk for a couple of hours. (you might see my problem, she is driving me crazy. Like show me your interrested or just leave me out cold.) This has been going on for a few months now, on and off contacting. But i just found out, this might have something to do with her phone. It connects to her wireless internet in her room automaticaly. And her phone laggs allot becouse of that. (as you can see im softening the blow for myself )

Then i did something realy stupid, i got drunk at a party and we were going to take a picture with our whole group, my mates and the pack of girls including my target. When the photo was taken, i kinda put my hand on her ass. I didn't touch it, but it looked like it on the picture.(yes i am an idiot!)
Eventualy i talked to her about it, she could laugh about it. She didn't put the picture on myspace though. Her friends did at their own space. (i think she might be a bit emberrased).

A few weeks back i went out to a bar with 3 girls of the pack, including my target.
a few laughs a bit of flirting, and then she started to touch me more. I mean in a way like "hey can i just hold on to you my boots are a bit loose"(while she fastens them, she holds my shoulder.)
We held hands while "traveling" through the bar to the dance floor. Other things i do for her are things like, if she stands in a "pathway" and people start bumping into her we switch places, so she is now leaning against the bar and im taking all the "punishment". A bit of that going on through the night, i was confronted with a class mate of mine. A girl witch i think likes me, she is fine and good looking but im here for only one thing.... My target girl!!
So a bit of flirting with her, trying to make my target jealous. Witch i think i accompliced a bit, becouse she asked later on where i knew her from etc. i told her it was just a class mate and nothing else. Later that night it was time to go home, so i went with her and a girlfriend "S." from her pack.
S. had to go the other way home, so i took my target girl home. I went up to her room, to get my cote, becouse i gave it to her in the beginning of the evening. We sad down and talked for about 45 mins. just the normal little stuff to talk about, school, friends etc.(she was realy comfortable around me, she sad on the bed i was on the couch about 3-4 feet apart.) Eventually i said i think i might go home, it is starting to get late. So 3 kisses on the cheeks and goodbye.

later that week we talked on msn again for about an hour, how things were going etc. all very nice but not enough if you know what i mean.
I realy do not know if i am in the damn friend zone, or if im still a regular guy she just knows(still the opportunity to aply PUA techniekes).
Later this week we will have our universities ending party, she will be there aswell.

The thing is, if this wasn't clear to you by now, i would realy like to date her, however I am afraid of the other 4 girls of her pack. That they might come between us, or even worse that i might become between my target and her friends.(witch are pretty close friends to me too now)
I would like some guys to help me please.

Thanks very much for your attention, if you have any questions about my relation ship to my target or her "pack" that might help you, to help me. Just ask!!
Thanks and hope to hear from you guys!!

Please make more paragraphs.

Piece of advice... just move on to another girl

I wish it was that easy, she is realy in my mind.
Especially becouse at one time she shows me she likes me and the other moment she leaves me out cold.
Could you explain why? That might help to get over her.

The fact that you were inside her house, and left without kissing her. Means that you are in the so called friendzone.

To me it seems that she IS interested into tough, and maby you both are in this situation that you don't wanna ruin the friendship bla bla.

Your not in a extreme bad situation tough, your going out with 5 girls, wich gives you some realy nice pre selection.

I think making her jealous is a good way to try and come out of the friendzone, because she does seem to care.
So I would use these 5 girls, including your target, as pivits and start hitting on random girls.
Check out her response and if she will become more touchy with you and starts showing more interest into you, then you know its on.

Also, you're saying you still flirt with her and her friends, wich is good, try escalating slowly.

She is also holding your hand, wich can mean 2 things. She likes you or since your in the friendzone, she uses you to stop other annoying guys from approaching her.

Good Luck bro, I need to get to the barber.

Thanks for your great reply, i can work with this. What you said about her trying to scare of other dudes that might want to get to her, you might be right. One dude keeps on hitting on her week afther week, she told me. And that night when i was visiting her home, she said to him that she had a boyfriend. (I thought i heared that in the club, i also thought she pointed at me.) So you might be close there, but that would mean a big problem -> Friendzone . Ill try to escalate a bit more and flirt with other girls.
If you would like, i will reply what happens next. You might be able to help me.
Thanks!!

Yeah man keep me up to date.

Reviewing my post I start to have some doubts about it all.

What you definitely should do, is using those girls as pivits to start hitting on other girls.
You must analyze her response to that and then backwards analyze if you're doomed in the friendzone forever or if there is this possibility.


What also just came to my mind is, that you can call her out on using you as shield for other guys. Because if she keeps doing that, you will not get out of that zone.


It's such a complicated situation, with too much factors involved and too much crap. That's why everyone will say that you should forget her and game another one of many girls.
But I know you didn't came here to hear that so I'm trying bro =p

You sound like your stuck in the friend zone. Getting out of the friend zone is fucking hard, i know from experience, but you could do it by making subtle hints that you want to be more than friends. I wouldn't go all out with comments like "you're sexy" as that would just confuse her, or make your relationship awkward. Try using kino and if she responds to it positively, you're game.

Thanks, i'll try that.
I will let you guys know how it's going
Magnetism, any books/vid's i could read/watch to help me get out of the friendzone?(if i find out that i am realy there.)

To really achieve success, you should try to adopt a "fuck it she's just a girl"-mentality. What I mean by this is, you shouldn't hesitate to escalate.
The problem that most guys have is that they don't escalate because they are afraid to get rejected. But that's the nice guy-method, which only works when the girl is really into you (because then she makes the move).
It's way harder to get slapped because you over-escalate, than to friendzoned for not escalating. Get it in your head. Escalate, don't hesitate.
For more about escalating, go read DiCarlo's Kino Escalation Ladder. Well, actually, go read it anyway, it's gold.

About the friendzone, I think you're in it. You had your chance on the bed, and if you only knew the Ladder you'd probably could've got something out of it.
To get the girl will be risky: Because you're in a group of girls you have to be careful, if you think they might cockblock you. This is because the system is closed: If you make a move, the other girls will know about it. Doesn't matter how they know it, they just will eventually. Therefore, every action you make with the target is also adressed to the other girls in the group.
Imagine befriending one girl, while acting arrogant against the other girls in her group: Eventually, that one girl will talk about you with her friends, and they will all say that you're a jerk. This will make the girl think you're not congruent, which kills attraction. Not good, so to say.

You're too much of a nice guy to her. You solve her problems (switching places in a bar) which makes you nice, but also a bit predictable and boring. An attractive guy causes problems: He is on the cause-side of the cause and effect that happens in this world. I'm not saying that you should get her in serious trouble, but for instance, you could push her (doing it with a 'I didn't do it'-face so she knows it was you) so she bumps in some guy. Break rapport and flirt with her, it will(/might) get you out of the friendzone.
Notice that putting an extra sexual frame around it might be awkward, especially if you only game your girl. For instance, if you touch her ass, you should also touch the ass of other girls (yet do it playfully).

_________________
Game the world.

Thanks very much!!
Ok so how do you suggest to deal with the closed system, I know i can be very patient so if this takes time no probs for me. And on the break the rapport, thats kinda hard for me to understand.(any articles on that?) I've read some but still doesn't make much sense (sorry new to pua). And you where totally right about the situation on the bed, that was my shot and i blew it. (i banged my head against the wall a few times )
And i'll read the book!
Cya

How to deal with the closed system very well depends on the situation, I cannot tell you. You should carefully calculate your interest level. If you're with the group, treat her like a queen (to prevent negative feelings rising up with the friends), but also be flirtatious. Like I said, cause her some problems, create some jealousy and get her interested. Don't be a wussy, that's key.

Rapport is the feeling that she is your best friend. It's useful, but only if you create attraction first, which you most probably didn't. Mystery Method tells you about it, seductiontuition.com does too. To get in the PU-community, I recommend you read Venusian Arts handbook. It will get you clear where you messed up. Also, go read pualingo.com if you don't fully understand a term used here (like rapport )

Oh, and rule #1: To get that one girl, you have to be able to get them all.

_________________
Game the world.

Them all like in the world, or the "pack"?

Great stuff Bits!

If you're able to game the 'pack' then you will spark attraction towards the whole group.
That is the way you overcome the 'closed' system, because if all her friends find you attractive, then they have 'permission' from each other to hit on you, kiss with you etc.

So if you can spark attraction on every girl within the pack, you will be able to pick one out, including your target.

But I would also game outside of the pack, because they should see you're out minding your own business and not living your life around these girls only.

Think about it, when they ask you to go out and you reject them saying; 'I can't I'm going out with this girl'.
They will instantly grow more respect and attraction, because of so many things you are displaying by that.

It's important that your life isn't revolving around their lives. But their lives around yours.

Jea, I got it . Ill try.
However im going to make the equation even harder,
3 of the 5 have a boyfriend. So that won't work, however 2 of the 3 realy like me.(but as a friend, witch i think is a good thing?) the other 1 I know for like 4 years now. Im trying to keep things slow so i don't screw this up. Today we will have dinner with a group of people 6 guys 6 girls. I kinda arranged it, so I hope its going to be fun. Afther that there is a big party at our university.
I'll try to apply some of the stuff you guys said.
Ok I'll let you guys know