So as I learned at the housewarming party, I have a major problem with hesitation, awkward pauses, and long periods of silence when approaching women. Well, I decided to kick hesitation in the balls and go balls-out on this approach. It failed pretty badly, and I need input on what to do as far as damage control is concerned.

Background
This girl is easily a HB10. I have known this girl for about a year, and started an approach on her in January when her and her bf broke up. Basically just doing push-pull, rapport type stuff. The only major success I have had with her is being able to do kino without her giving off IOD's (or at least none that I could detect) plus I have twice made her laugh her ass off at some sexually themed jokes I made.I #closed her a long time ago and throughout the semester, I had asked her to various Day2 activities, she consistently was "busy". So I am at work, and I get this text that this HB10 sent out to all her friends saying that this would be the last time she would be leading this group that I go to weekly. Ideally I would have loved to have had more time to work game on her. The way I saw it, this was a now or never situation: Either I go for a Kclose to try and inject some major attraction into our interaction, or do one of those AFC-ish goodbyes where you tell her you want to see her again, and she agrees but it never happens. I thought about it a lot that day, and decided that I would rather risk it all then play it safe and wonder what could have been.

The Plan
I had been watching The 12 minute kiss close (I AM aware of the controversy surrounding this PUA) and trying to match the basic structure that he used in it. Because I have a tendency to stall out in interactions(as learned at the house party), I developed a start-to-finish game plan that went something like this:

-Enter meeting area, use basic opener on target

-Borrow target from group ("Just 2 Seconds...I'll give her right back...")

-Direct Compliment

-Ask "Why are you leaving (groupname)?"

-Carry on brief rapport conversation based on her answers, relate to similar experience.

-Neg her for leaving group (push) but tell her "At least you smell nice." (pull/close to intimate space)

-Begin final approach using energy routine (I was basically going to copy what T did in the video. Look near end of 12 min kclose video when he starts talking about "her energy" right before he leans into her ear)

-Kclose (basically copy from video) say "See, I told you so."

-Say "HB10Leader, I'm gonna miss you" pity pat to shoulder, exit room like nothing happened.

Pre-Approach
As I was driving to the meeting place I was NERVOUS AS HELL. I tried to calm my nerves using positive thinking, music, and prayer, and it worked pretty well. My friends have observed that I have major balls when it comes to approaching women in the past. So overall, I I think I projected a lot of confidence as I walked into the meeting place. I think I had good body language and tonality as I started my approach.

My original plan was to execute my approach before the beginning of the meeting, to catch her off-guard as she would be more likely to expect some sort of last-ditch move at the end when she was leaving. However, as soon as I walked into the room, the target put a card in my face from a board game they were playing and asked me to play. I obliged and was able to help her team out.

As I grabbed a chair, the back fell off of it and she shit-tested/negged me (I think) by saying:

HB10Leader:"Freedom, did you break the chair?" *playful tonality
Freedomfalcon:"Yeah, but I promise to give it a proper burial!" *playful tonality reciprocated.

We finished the game and then went right into the meeting, so I was unable to isolate as she was leading the meeting. She asked open ended questions to the group and seemed to like my answers. I got some solid eye contact a few times from her during the meeting, she also mentioned being a "hopeless romantic". I saw this as an IOI and a green light to proceed with my approach after the meeting.

At one point she knocked over a bunch of nuts and bolts off a table.
HB10Leader:"Freedom did you break another chair?" *again playful
Freedomfalcon:"Yep." *nonchalant

After about 20 more minutes she concluded the meeting, we closed in prayer, and I decided to initiate my approach.

Initial Approach
I asked her if I could borrow her for a minute, she said "Sure, let me say bye to these other people." She took about a minute to say goodbye. I moved towards where I wanted to isolate her, she followed.

After saying bye to the last friend, she followed me into the other room.
Freedom: "You look cute tonight!"
HB10Leader:"Thanks!" I got me bleached hair bla bla bla...

She was dressed to the NINES!!! I negged her about looking like Lady Gaga and she agreed, saying that if she were taller she would look just like her. We bantered on a bit about this.

Freedom:"So why are you leaving the group?"
HB10Leader: I just need.....
She told me the reason, but reassured me that she would be keeping in touch.

Freedom:"...Yeah I totally understand it was like this one time..."
I told her a similar story that related to why she was leaving.
Freedom:"....Or you could just be trying to say "Im too sophisticated for this group"" *sarcastic playful neg
HB10Leader: "No!" *laughs "Its not that...."

Cockblock inbound read for lols
Now keep in mind we are both alone in a dark room and the only light illuminating us is coming from another room. Around this time the targets guy-friend that she hangs around with all the time (at best is a good friend, at worst is a friend-zoned AFC) comes into the room and flicks on the lights. He never actually engages us when he first comes in, he just kind of walks in between us, opens up the freezer as if to look for something, and then says:

AFC:"Sooooooo, Im going to be leaving with so-and-so, when will you be leaving?"
HB10Leader:"I'll be leaving at such and such a time"
Freedom:"Wellbedoneinlike2minutes" *quick, nervous
AFC:"Huh?'
Freedom:"Well be done in like 2 minutes"*slower, calmer
AFC:"Ok" *slinks out of room


Final Approach
Right after AFC slinks out of the room, I resume the conversation:

"Freedom:"....Or you could just be trying to say "Im too sophisticated for this group"" *sarcastic playful neg HB10: "No!" *laughs "Its not that.I'll be around Campus...."

Freedom:"Well, at least you smell nice!What is that?"*leans in to smell neck
HB10Leader:"Thanks! Its Juicy such-and-such perfume"
At this point she takes a quarter step away from me to the side. It didn't seem like a blatant IOD so I continue the approach.

Freedom:You know ever since I met you, I've noticed you've had this energy, this good sense of humor, this *pause Janne se qua, which kind of freaks me out *push....but I mean its good...its kind of like..."*leans in to whisper in her ear.(I pretty much followed what T did in that video)


As I am whispering, I have my left hand on her lower back and my right hand is doing this circular motion in front of her face, like the wrap-it-up hand signal. This was so that I could grab her chin with my fingers when the time came to move in for the Kclose. She wasn't resisting my kino or personal space invasion, so I thought I had it made

Freedom:"....its this energy,its fun and spontaneous,but also mischievous, kind of like..."

I rotate her chin towards me. She pulls her chin away.

*in a "I know what your doing and its lame" voice tone:
HB10Leader:"Freedom, what are you doing?"
Freedom:

Execute Missed Approach!!!
At this point I completely lose my composure. My lips are quivering. I had not anticipated her refusal. I was in over my head. I really don't remember saying anything. EVERYTHING JUST FELL APART!!!!! I AFC'ed OUT!!! I'm actually laughing at myself for this

HB10Leader:"Freedom....I can tell your nervous....just calm down....talk me through this....are you trying to make a move on me?"

I try to regain whats left of my shattered "Alpha" frame....

Freedom:"Depends...."*in seductive but trace nervous voice
HB10Leader:"I just want to know....whats the deal.....whats going on..."
Freedom:"Well...you are a very captivating women...and I would like to get to know you better...."

At that point honesty seemed like the best way out. She says a lot of things after that, I can't remember all of them due to the nervousness, but a few things stuck out... My afterthoughts are in italics

HB10Leader:"....Well there are better ways of getting to know someone then to make a move like that..." Well I've been doing push-pull/rapport THE ENTIRE SEMESTER, and that wasn't going anywhere quick, so what else was I supposed to do?

HB10Leader:"The only thing I can really see us as is friends.....nothing more.....that's it"
Freedom:"That's cool"

*NOTE: The only reason I was cool with this is because I had planned way before this approach that if she either rejected me or got a boyfriend, I would use her as a PIVOT POINT. I need advice on how to do this. More info at bottom of post.

HB10Leader:"Your a great guy....don't see this as getting shot down...there are plenty of other women out there...."
Freedom:"Oh yeah...of course..."If I'm not getting shot down, why are my wings on fire and why am I rapidly descending towards Friendsville?

At one point after she reiterated the just friends thing, I tried to go with it....
HB10:"....This isn't offending you is it?"
Freedom:"No no...if you want, we can discuss it over coffee..."Because that's what friends do, right?[/]
HB10Leader:"Freedom, we could only do that just as friends....NOTHING MORE...."

After saying a bunch more stuff, she says.
HB10Leader:"I have to go to the bathroom, but I will see you later."

I return to the front room where the AFC and a couple other girls are talking. I try to maintain my Alpha body language as I sit down in the chair there. I can hear a ton of running water from the bathroom for a long time. I start to wonder if she is taking a shower, but then she reappears. We exit the building and I say "Well good luck on such-and-such thing that made you leave" and gave her a hug goodbye. As we were going our separate ways, I shook her hand goodbye and said:

Freedom:Catch you later!
HB10Leader:Bye!

Aftermath
As I go back home, my brain is going a million miles per minute. I'm definitely in Condition Yellow. One of the first things that comes to my mind is the fact that there are a lot of HB's in this group that HB10Leader had led. I realize that if she tells the other women in this group what happened, I'll be blown out of every set in this group! So I send her a text message:

Freedom:I would like to keep what was said in the other room between us.
HB10Leader:Well I'm not going to lie, I may confide in a close friend, but would never dream of telling everybody or anybody. However I do believe that was completely inappropriate and hope that you will handle your romantic feelings for girls in a more respectful manner next time.
Freedom:Ok

About half an hour later, I sent her this message:
Freedom:I'm sorry for making you feel uncomfortable.
HB10Leader:I just don't understand how it came to that out of nowhere????
Freedom:"I'll text you tomorrow about it"

That was 3 days ago. I have not had any contact with her since.

Questions

1.Now, I'm not going to be like some AFC whiny little weakling and ask how I can win her over. I KNOW I AM BEYOND SCREWED AT THIS POINT. I am faced with 3 outcomes:

Minimum:Prevent her from doing damage to me by telling other sets within the group what happened.

Adequate:Stay in friend zone and use her as a pivot/wing-women.

Optimal:Use her as a wing-women/pivot, eventually getting her jealous and re-approaching her....THE RIGHT WAY!!!

What is the best outcome you think I can achieve at this point, and what do I say/do to get to that outcome?

2.I don't to to project to her that her rejection hurt my self esteem or really meant that much to me, because it DIDN'T. However I fear that ignoring her for too long after I said I was going to text her will give her the impression that I'm really not interested in being friends, I just wanted to bust a move on her.I def. DO NOT want to be all AFC and needy though.

Keeping the highest achievable outcome in Question 1 in mind, when should I re-engage her and what do I say/do?

3.What did I do wrong?

4.What did I do right?

5.What do I need to work on?

So long. I read most of it. You're taking this hard. You know why? Because there was a year of build up. I think you're new to the community, so you didn't know any better, you probably won't be crushed like this ever again. In the future, work faster. I think material is kind of cheesy, especially if it's not consistent with who you are. I know it's not consistent with who you are because when everything didn't go according to material, you flailed like you were drowning. Your target also noticed your transformation which is why she shut you down immediately. She's known you for a year dude, you have to act like yourself. Probably the best way to recover after she blew you out would've been to say something like "I didn't want to let you leave without knowing how I feel" and then walking away because nothing good came out of just standing there and begging for additional chances to make moves on her.

But kudos for giving it your best shot. You shouldn't have any regrets because you put it all out there, that's how a man does. I'm proud of you. You have to know who you are and what parts of what material will work for you. This was pretty much an impossible scenario anyway because you've been in the friendzone for a year, you can't just change that overnight (unless you save her from burning wreckage, zombie invasion, etc.).

As for what to do now? Well, lets face facts, your relationship with this girl is toast. She doesn't seem like the type of girl that will flat out ignore you, but she will definitely make excuses never to be alone with you again. Don't dwell on what if's. It sounds like you're just starting out, so this was valuable experience, you'll find what works for you if you stick with it. I know this isn't organized, but everything you asked for is in here.

Sorry about the length. Thank you very much for your advice. I have a few more questions though:
From what you said, it seems like the best outcome between me and her would be the minimum.Do you think there is any way I could turn her into a pivot, and if so how long should I freeze her out until I contact her again?


I think that the primary reason why everything fell apart after she rejected me was that I did not anticipate and plan for what would I would do if that happened. Would things have gone better if instead of quivering like a bitch I said something to re-frame it as her making a move on me, then exiting the area, leaving her wanting more?

Also, from what I got from you and others on this matter, one of the main factors was that I took WAAAAAAAAAAY too long in my approach. There are other girls in this and other sets that I am interested in that have pretty much the same setup, having #closed them anywhere from a week to over a year ago. How do I go about building up attraction in them even though I have known them for a while and haven't immediately approached?

As for the approach plan itself, the fact that I was able to get as far as I did with it and not get shot down sooner makes me think that its a pretty good structure. What changes should I make to it, and how can I calibrate it to girl I've know a long time vs. girl I just met off the street?

When she said you need to be more respectful in the future, what was she referring to? When you grabbed her chin or w/e? It's a little unclear if you tried to kiss her there or something.

By the way, when you realize some things may not be going your way, don't push forward so aggressively. You'll start going in a negative direction.

Next time be a little more calm and try to assess things better.

_________________
-Fortune favors the bold-

She was referring to my attempted Kclose. In the future, I will keep a better watch on IOD's and de-escalate accordingly if they are present. On being more calm, I think that the primary reason why everything fell apart after she rejected me was that I did not anticipate and plan for what would I would do if that happened. Would things have gone better if, instead of quivering like a bitch, I said something to re-frame it as her wanting to make a move on me, then exiting the area, leaving her wanting more?

Probably not. You've been in the friendzone for a year, you're not changing that with a little game. If she's interested in helping you game, that's good, but that still means you're just friends. Accept it already and stop dwelling on your performance. You're going to have to practice in order to fine tune it.

Why is trying to kiss a girl "disrespectful"?

It's not. That's just how some girls react to a friendzone violation, they say it's being disrespectful.

Alright, well since I am firmly established in the "Friend Zone™", how do I make this girl into a pivot? Also,

From what I got from you and others on this matter, one of the main factors was that I took WAAAAAAAAAAY too long in my approach. There are other girls in this and other sets that I am interested in that have pretty much the same setup, having #closed them anywhere from a week to over a year ago.

How do I go about building up attraction in them even though I have known them for a while and haven't immediately approached?

a dramatic change. change who they see when they see you. facial hair, a new tattoo. lift your truck. an earring can work, they are back, especilly indian stones like aquamarine. I started wearing a fedora & kissing my biceps before shaking hands. Also I introduce myself now by my middle name, but not long form, as a nickname. i.e:

"Hi, *kisses biceps, slowly raises eyes for dramatic contact; extends hand* I'm david chris. After handshake I tip my fedora so she knows I'm old fahsioned but no pussy,

Trust me. Tweak your game & they will see a new you. Make it interesting & they will want to close. You will take your pick.

_________________
i like dirty chix w/ big tits. im kindof a dick

No offense intended, but wouldn't you come across as a tool to girls who have known you a while if you started doing that? In any case I actually might be able to pull something like this off. I've been looking at getting some pea-cocking items.

But is it just be surface level, or do you also have to change the way you interact with them as well? And is there any game re-calibration you have to do vs. doing a cold approach with a girl you have never met before?

yeah, the key is not to take it too seriously. try cultivating a kind of dry, sardonic humor— but stay energetic! don't put em to sleep or make em feel too ignorant. stay mysterious enough to sustain interest.

if they come at you with "where'd this come from," say that you like to keep it interesting. if they say it's lame/contrived say " i guess that's me" own it! say "im having fun, and the results speak for themselves." ive had an old friend laugh in my face & then call me the next day and say how much she liked the new me.

let it soak in, then soak up the rewards.

_________________
i like dirty chix w/ big tits. im kindof a dick

Give me an example of what you mean by "Tweak your game." Can it just be appearance level? Or do you have to change around your entire approach plan?

Also, I'll be going for at least a month with no contact with this girl or her set. How do I know when the right time to "tweak" is?

Also, what about after you "Tweak"? How long until you can approach the target from scratch?

Dude! You are thinking WAY too much.

El Guapo's advice is gold.

Don't think it

Try it

I see what your getting at but I'm not sure how to go about trying it.