Hey guys.

So, there's this girl who I always really fancied but never knew who was in the year below me at school.

I made contact with her through mutual friends and tried to run game on her, at the time I was pretty new to the whole PUA thing and made plenty of mistakes, probably the biggest was letting a good friend of hers know that I liked her, which I'm sure got through to her.

Anyway, we got along well, but I ended up in the friend zone, which was pretty annoying, and we're now both at the same university.

I've been in the Friend Zone for about a year, and sort of tried some half-assed freeze outs but after seeing her two weeks ago and realising how frustrated I was, I decided I'd go the proper freeze.

That meant turning down her invitation to go for a walk last week, and then ignoring some calls from her, and acting pretty indifferent this week.

Today I got this e-mail from her:

"hey, I know Im the last person you want to speak to SPAM, not completely sure why.... but just if you want we dont have to be friends anymore.. I get it

I guess this seems lik a pretty dumb email, but yeah point is its ok, and Im sorry

dw you dont need to write back "

I really don't think I'd gone overboard on the freeze, only two weeks remember.

She actually did this last year when I had a mini-freeze, and said that I didn't know why she'd think that etc.

How should I interpret this, and what should my next move be?

All advice appreciated.

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What is worse, the pain of hard work or the pain of regret?

If you had a guy friend who suddenly started turning down your invitations to do things over the course of two weeks, you might think something was up. She's assuming quite rightly as a rational non PUA person would that by not talking to her your signaling your disinterest. And since you've been friends with her up until that point she's also assuming that somethings changed. Being probably a kind and compassionate person she assumes further that it's something she did and that you're pissed off about it.

That's not strange.

What do you need to do?

And this is a lesson I think anyone man or woman has to learn. Hell, I have even been friend-zoned a couple of times. Guys do it too, and it's not because I'm ugly. (Though it's possible it's because I'm not their type). Sometimes it happens because you're too much one of the guys, and they don't see you sexually and it looks like you're suffering from the same problem here.

You know what I've learned. Enjoy their friendship because that's all you're going to get if you stay with them. You need to find another girl. I know it's hard, but they are out there. And more importantly you need to do this freeze for yourself, you need the opportunity to get to the point where you don't NEED her, especially if she's not interested in you. Being with her if you like and she doesn't like you is toxic emotionally and to do your dating life.

No probably a lot of guys are going to decry this because it's an unusual technique. But I say try honesty. Tell her that you like you enjoy being around her, but that she's not giving you everything you need from a relationship and that you're looking for something different.

I don't know about you but that just screams DHV to me. It also can have you come across as a prick who just wants women for sex and doesn't value her friendship, which is why I would almost be tempted to go with the other route. I really like you, but it seems like you don't like me, which is fine. I really wish I could be there for as a friend, but it isn't something that I'm capable of right now. I don't know maybe a mix of the two.

Either way the only solution now is to leave.
- V.A

sounds like she may or may not want you as a bf but she defiantly wants you around. and 2 weeks of no contact will do that to anyone guy or girl especially after she makes an effort to hang out.

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que sara sare, LET THAT SHIT RIDE

You're exactly right.
Lenny, listen.. if you like this girl then fair enough but at this time freezing out is doing more worse than good. You don't need to freeze out to get out of the friend zone you just need to break rapport with this girl although at this moment I wouldn't advise it because I think too much rapport has already been broken by this huge freeze out.

Lets be honest on a man to man perspective, you've frozen out because you're scared of your feelings fucking this up even more and because you have no tactic to take you out of the friend zone? Either way, it's obvious that she's upset by this and it's obvious she enjoyed your company around her.

But listen, this freeze out has obviously taken you out of the friend zone now. If you want her then now is the time to get her. Just send an email saying "apologies if I came across as ignoring you it wasn't intentional I just needed some time to myself, however since we're on the topic I could do with a walk. You're welcome to join me.."

Whilst out, build comfort again then break rapport so not only does she feel comfortable around you she's seeing you as sexual which is one of the prime basis of attraction minus kino escalation. Here's an example, build comfort and talk about something that will make her laugh and say "wow.. I never noticed before but you have.. such a sexy smile" or use a few sexual conversations. This will work in your favour because she'll see you as a new person and someone who has a little sex appeal to himself.

Remember (Comfort whilst breaking rapport) + Qualification + Sexual Escalation = Attraction. If you want to learn more download Adam Lyons - Principles of attraction on 4shared.com.

I bid you good luck my friend.

AFCCoffee

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"At the end of the day these are women's lives we're dealing with, not mere entertainment."

"We are what we repeatedly do. excellence therefore is a habit and not an act."

wrong way to get yourself out of the friendzone..

Hmm guyz i think you came too hard on him.
i also was in your position and it sucks and hard because the entire magic of attraction in when the girl dont know you and you expose yourself one piece at a time. this girl already knows you, and you went to the friend zone early on... its much harder to make her curius about you now.
this major freeze out you gave her is the right thing 2 do, because you have to shake the building first, destroy it and build it from scratch as much as possible.

you need to contact her and let her think that you are new man, not the same you were before.
tell her you had a lot of going on and you wanted some time alone. dont apologize because it is your right to feel that way. now when youll try to get back with her you have to be very diffrent, you wont listen to her bullshit, you wont complimant to her and say what ever she likes to hear ... youll start telling her about other girls, and neg her, and kino with her, and whatever you know pua does.

good luck my friend.
btw, you really really should go out and meet new girls while you manage to fix this realationship at the same time.

The freeze out may be working OK.

I saw her today, went for a walk.

Never been afraid to neg, that's not an issue, but I was trying to ramp up the Kino with playful teasing etc, make a more sexual frame.

I was getting a lot more reciprocal touching than I ever had previously from this girl, and when we sat down by a tree, she happily lay in between my legs, and let me put my hands on her stomach.

I tried to escalate, started kissing and smelling her hair (which she didn't mind), but I she wasn't loving my stroking of her hair and face from front on so I decided not to go in for the kiss.

Obviously I'm hoping that she's just getting used to the idea of me being 'alpha and attractive' and that with further good game and escalation I can get the elusive kiss, and perhaps more.

I'll admit to some 'oneitis' but don't think that I haven't been gaming other girls, I've been with plenty during my 'friendship (hate that damn word)' with her.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, keep it coming, and if you must shatter confidence, do it, it is all for the betterment of game.

Cheerio from Melbourne, Australia

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What is worse, the pain of hard work or the pain of regret?

That's good man, if she's sending out more reciprocal kino then that may be a good sign. Next outing you should go for the K-close, don't escalate for nothing.

But good work on getting back on track mate, well played

AFCCoffee

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"At the end of the day these are women's lives we're dealing with, not mere entertainment."

"We are what we repeatedly do. excellence therefore is a habit and not an act."

Hey guys, things have turned out really well.

She went away for the weekend with her family, but she sent me a text asking if I wanted to come over to her house on Monday night. At that point I knew I was pretty much in.

At her house we started watching a movie in her bed (plenty of kino going both ways) and after a while we started making out, and ended up kissing for hours.

I knew she wasn't ready for anything further, so I wasn't going to push her, but we're together now which is fantastic obviously.

This means I'm going to have to get my relationship game going.

To date my success has come from generating strong social value, DeAngeloesque cocky and funny, much improved body language and kino, and finally I believe the freeze-out which made her realise how much she liked me.

My question from here is, how different is relationship game to building attraction game. David D has taught me that I should act pretty much the same now as then, but I really like this girl and it's hard not to open up to her about this to some extent now.

I don't plan to be supplicating or wussy, but do I need to continue to play sort of hard to get and indifferent, or can I call her more often now and make it genuinely overt how much I like her, whilst still maintaining a dominant presence, eg telling her how obvious it is that she likes me.

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What is worse, the pain of hard work or the pain of regret?

First of all, grats on escalating, getting the girl and making it work.

Second, the key to any relationship is balance, make sure you like/love eachother equally and make sure that one of you is not investing more into the other and vice versa.

And I know it's hard to do, but don't let her know of your insecurities, if you really need to vent, tell your mates, because this is an easy way to kill attraction and increase the chance of her cheating on you. Another easy way to kill attraction is having nothing else in your life but her. Keep seeing your friends, doing your hobbies, etc.

I don't know if you know this, but drop the cocky and funny stuff, it's only to show you're different than most guys, it gets old quite quick. However David D's advise on being unpredictable still applies in a relationship to keep it fun instead of boring.

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An approach a day keeps the guru away.