how would you guys deal with this? I hate messaging.

iv never had a girl not give me her number

How many times did you email each other before this?

_________________
Johnny
www.organicseduction.com

like 5 times between us both.

Ok cool. I was worried you were going to say it was like 20 messages, so good job for going for it so soon.

It wasn't the way you asked for the number, I've taken that approach plenty of times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Fact is, a lot of chicks are only on dating sites for validation.

Same as a lot of them in the clubs are really. No big deal. As far as this one goes, forget about her and keep playing the numbers. Think of it like this: you wouldn't think there was something wrong with your game if some validation whore in a club didn't want to give you her number, right?

Best advice I can give you is learn to spot the validation chicks by their profile. If you read that that's mostly what she's after, try amping up the c/f and push-pull before going for the number.

Another thing I'll do, although I find it kind of slow and boring, is if I'm reading that she won't give me her number when I'm about to go for it, I'll just ask for her facebook info instead. Once I get her on there, I can at least game her a little bit in real time before going for the number.

But as I said, that's kind of hit or miss. A lot of times, they'll add you but then they're never on the chat.

Bottom line is: if you're going to do online game, be ready to play the numbers. I never have to worry about if one chick turns out to be a validation whore that doesn't have any intention of hooking up with me because I've constantly got 3 or 4 other ones that I'm talking to at any given moment.

_________________
Johnny
www.organicseduction.com

whoa thanks for the info man. You ever think there is a real exception to the rule? because this girl seems to be seriously asking a lot about me, but at the same time im like wtf@ the rejection.

Well yeah dude...there's exceptions to EVERY rule. I'm not interested in exceptions though, they aren't reliable. I don't like surprises!

Check it out. She didn't reject you, she just rejected your approach. Try this real quick: email her back and say, "hey fair enough...I totally understand what with there being so many weird and random people on here. I actually had a stalker once! Funny story I'd like to tell you some time if you'd like. Anyway, I was wondering; are you on facebook by any chance? Maybe you'd like to chat over there instead..."

Now before you read that and think that it sounds supplicative or AFC, consider this: while she may be attention seeking, she might just be looking for you to give her some more COMFORT. Only one way to find out! Hit her back up and see what happens!

Oh yeah and if you don't have a stalker story then either leave that part out or be prepared to tell her a joke and/or outright lie!

Not advocating lying, btw. But if you do, I won't judge you=)

Go get em tiger.

_________________
Johnny
www.organicseduction.com

i asked for a fb and she gave it to me. but also said she gave up for lent. I looked at it and she has not been on in a while.

but still.....

I don't even see that as "validation seeking" really. Some girls may just not be comfortable giving out their number so soon...

Why not set a specific time to have a chat and talk, then see if she's more comfortable after that.

Only other thing I'd say is instead of saying you're not at the computer much, maybe say you don't ever seem to be on at the same time? Maybe that's more for me, since I'm _always_ at a computer... but as is going to facebook or back into chat makes it look like you lied...

For my online gaming (like online dating sites) I normally will try to setup a date with the girl within the first 5 email messages. If you go beyond 5 messages before asking them out on a date your chances drop considerably of ever meeting with them. In that time one of several things will happen:

1. She says 'Yes' and will eventually give you her phone number and your in.
2. She will want to talk first on the phone before meeting with you and you will give out her phone number to you.
3. She might be caught off guard but will eventually respond back to you...but don't appear needy and give her some time to think about it.
4. She never talks to you again.
5. She is a bot and it was never her real intension of meeting with you in the first place.

Take that with a grain of salt. You MUST be able to walk away from ANY situation at any given time and just move on...otherwise you look too needy and an AFC anyways and you have some work to do.

Best,

J-Dub

_________________
J-Dub in DC

Its better to be the predator than the prey.

You need to be a good player if your gonna be successful at the game.

5 emails too soon? If they are on a dating site then imho 5 emails is TOO LATE. Are they some totally insecure paranoid type. For me 2 or 3 fairly involved emails and if there's no number or no agreement for a meet then I'll move on or I'll call them out on it (normally the former sometimes the latter if I'm feeling like venting some anger...)

I think people just need to set their own rules and limits - in my experience I cannot think of one girl I've actually met where they were reluctant to give out their number in a few emails.

i kept on talking to her. i would message back 3-4 days after her message(not on purpose. iv just been really busy) and she would message back same day. she just asked me how iv been. how should i go about getting the # the 2nd time?

since you've already made a play this merely an alternative in retrospect

Normally offering one's number is frowned upon, but she's challenged you to come up with an alternative. A plausible alternative would have been to suggest phoning you at a given time(s) with whatever mechanism your country has for hiding caller id. DHV with superior knowledge & control. This isn't a progressive step its a clever push pull strategy. Telephone conversation is more emotive than online. Chances are she still won't give you her number, but thats ok because you're going back to less emotive casual online messaging afterwards. If the phonecall is sufficiently fun etc It ought to transform her push into a pull. ie you gave her a glimpse of your awesomeness but it's her control preventing her from accessing it further. If she doesn't phone you in these circumstances (you provided the perfect solution) its instant dlv on her part and you get to ask if she's shy or whatever.

This logic is loosely based on the experiences I've had that women will offer contact details of their own free will if they perceive sufficient high value.

Why not just set up a meeting? Ask her to meet you for coffee or a drink or whatever, somewhere public, so you can meet and get to know each other better without any risk of you becoming a stalker or something.

There was a thread on OKCupid recently, and several girls said they wouldn't give their number to a guy before meeting. Even more women said they hated talking on the phone to someone they'd only messaged so far, it's apparently pretty awkward.

I always go for the meeting first, then the day before we're supposed to meet send them my phone number in case they need to get ahold of me.

Good points - I consider my mobile number far more personal than my email address. Interesting about feeling awkward on the phone. Unless your phone game is ultra tight forget it and just cut out an unnecessary step.

I use a similar tactic online - why even bother getting a number it's just another link in the process which can go wrong? Push for the meet by mail - get the number as a back up. If I don't get theirs I will give mine - I always say I NEVER answer unknown numbers so they'll have to text me first. If I don't get their number but the meet still is on I invariably show up a little late - there's NO way of you being able to contact them so what do they expect. It's a subtle slap back at their lack of compliance